"The Fall of Centauri Prime" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 5x18, "The Fall of Centauri Prime". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Alliance ships bomb Centauri Prime, and Londo accepts a Drakh keeper and becomes the Emperor to protect his people.

Extra reading:
The article for "The Fall of Centauri Prime" at The Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm tempted to write "what they said", but I'm valiantly struggling not to. So:

1.) This is the episode which made me hate whoever is responsible for making the dvds in Germany because they actually start it with the credits, minus the teaser scene where Londo drags G'Kar out of the cell. Which is why, when I rewatch, I haul out my old video tapes. That scene is so them, with the quintessential L/G dialogue:
"You saved my life, at the risk of your own."
"Bah, you would have done the same for me."
"Yes, but I am the better person."

2.) In an episode that breaks my heart multiple times on Londo's account, there is always a little sadness for the Regent as well, and his very Roman death (JMS, your I, Claudius influences show again, and I mean that in a good way).

3.) re: Delenn and Lennier: or, why good intentions pave the road to, and you know the rest. For Delenn to acknowledge his love with "I know" (and she does, and did for a good while) and then pretend it doesn't happen when it turns out they'll survive was the worst thing she could have done, and yet, what ELSE could she have done? When they were about to die, it would have been callous to say "yes, I love you too, just not in the way you love me", and afterwards she was trying to help him save face in that very Minbari way. Only they're way beyond that.

4.) Who am I kidding? Londo. G'Kar. Best scenes ever. LONDO. Oh, and yes, why this season so was necessary. Londo's challenge was a) to acknowledge what he'd done in the past (which he did in The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari) without excuses, and b) to face that worst fear. Because I don't think Londo's worst fear is death at G'Kar's hands, hasn't been for a good long while (imo not after Dust to Dust anymore). It's seeing his homeworld threatened with ruin because of himself and to give up any hope for himself and control over his own life in order to save it. He's wrong, he does have a choice. Refa, in his place, would have high-tailed it out of Dodge; so would a great many other people of a more benevolent persuasion. But he faces his fate with courage and dignity, and the love he always had for the Centauri.

If "I'm sorry" were the words Londo needed to say to G'Kar at the start of this season (and remember, all the way back in s2, Coming of Shadows, Emperor Turhan said the Centauri and the Narn would not have a chance until a Centauri would say these words to a Narn on neutral ground, on Babylon 5), G'Kar's challenge was to say "I forgive you" and mean it. (BTW, note, and I appreciate that, that the show also lets him make the important distinction between personal forgiveness from one individual to another, which G'Kar can extend, and general forgiveness, which he can not. "My people will never forgive you. You understand that, don't you?" "Yes." "But I can forgive you." This scene will never fail to tear me apart.

5.) The montage is responsible for me being unable to rewatch Parliament of Dreams without feeling a pang.

6.) Poor Vir.

7.) LONDO.

*goes back to crying*

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

It's not just the German dvds - my Australian dvd is also missing the first scene.

[athena799.livejournal.com]

Arrgh, I know I'm late for the party AGAIN (Damn my B5 introduction schedule!)!

How can people have problems with this episode? I don't understand. Then again, being a rabid Londo fangirl, it's been over an hour and I can't stop crying hysterically.

Light depression out of the way first, Lennier's confession on its own would have been enough to reduce me to tears. Stop toying with his heart, Delenn! Ahh....well, it's ok, I still love you and there's not much else you could have done but still, why not be an adult and explain why you can't love him? Or, y'know, just tell him to wait 20 years...

ONTO THE IMPORTANT BITS!

Like I said, after over an hour of sobbing over Londo its hard to remember every detail like you did. But watching him drive away everyone one by one until he was alone (horrible flashback to him telling Morden that he wanted to "Be left alone" aside) was enough to leave me a wreck. All I could think when he was talking to the Regent was "RUN, RUN!! Explain everything to the people on B5, there's still hope! They'll help you!"

But in the end, Londo's stubborn streak of nobility won out and he had to save his people rather than only himself. I had echoes of your fic about the Centauri telepaths analyzing his inner soul playing in my head, that selfishness mixed with impossible bravery. Watching the Keeper crawl up him, with horrible flashbacks of "War without End" also playing my head *sob*. Seriously, I thought I cried hard when I saw him at the end of his life, forced to drink himself to death just to save his friends, with his time constantly running out. Clearly I had not yet seen this episode or I would have really known what tears were.

Umm...really, I can't stop crying. This is kind of embarrassing, I haven't sobbed this hard in years.

Also, POOR VIR indeed!

*goes back to crying as well*