"Signs and Portents" discussion [spoilers]

[ruuger]

Sorry for the delay - my internet connection was down last night.

This is the discussion post for the episode 1X13, "Signs and Portents". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Extra reading:

The article for "Signs and Portents" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

I thought G'Kar's admitting he didn't know what he would do after crushing the Centauri showed he still had some potential to turn away from that path; and that was what dissatisfied Morden. Londo has no qualifiers to his answer. G'Kar's 'I don't know' also reminded me of Delenn's doubts as expressed to the Inquisitor.

Oddly, and probably since on my first viewing I saw things out of order and missed a lot, I thought Delenn's glowing triangle was some sort of protection from the Vorlon, a bad guy detector of some kind. Sort of like Glinda's kiss on Dorothy's forehead. Which made the later reaction to Londo and the urn more explicable.

Kosh's statement 'they are not for you' (again, at the first viewing) I thought meant the people on the station; that all the ambassadors would be involved (as they were, one way or another) in what was coming. The human exceptionalism aspects of the show always bother me.

"The vision of B5 being destroyed with one shuttle leaving..."

This time through that scene seemed to foretell the 'original' ending; with Sinclair and Delenn escaping the destruction of the station at the last minute with David.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

IMO, G'Kar and Londo both had the potential for that path, and to turn away; they weren't inherently better or worse than each other, but they made different choices, from which their paths diverged (though ultimately met again). (I.e. later season 2 and 3 G'Kar is definitely a better man than Londo, but he is so because of the choices he made, not because he was always destined to be.) Definitely agreed that Londo's lack of qualifiers and more universal "great empire" request (instead of a specific "I want the Narn defeated" request) made him more appealing to Morden.

Human exceptionalism: I don't think the show as such has it, but the Vorlons definitely have a worthy/unworthy standart to which they hold the younger races. (These are the people who think nothing of destroying entire planets, no matter the bystanders, if that means dealing a blow to their enemies, after all.)

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

"Human exceptionalism: I don't think the show as such has it.."

I see it much more in the fandom than the show proper I must admit.

Londo and G'Kar's paths are fascinating, and I am looking forward to following it again with company this time. I still think this is the first hint that G'Kar can think beyond what he wants to what happens next. Londo seems to feel that what he wants is an end in and of itself. Also neither wants it for themselves, but for their people...isn't the capacity for self-sacrifice one of the principles of sentient life?