b5_revisited | "Born to the Purple" discussion [spoilers]

Another episode that was surprisingly better than I remembered, though it has some embarrassing moments, notably Sinclair's awful Generic Villain laugh in the scene where he's undercover with Londo in the bar.

However, where it scores is in what it reveals to us about Centauri culture and the value Centauris place on prestige and title, because of course that will all feed in later in the way Morden tempts Londo.

I thought it was a pretty believable exercise in world building.

The scenes with Ivanova and her father are great too and really open out her character, even though she remains so repressed and hard on the surface.

The ways in which I love this episode, let me count them.

1) Londo Londo Londo. This was when I went from like to love and fell for him hard and for life. It's the first episode that fleshes him out as a character. The fact he's a romantic under a cynical exterior is far more serious than you'd think at this point, because the same type of romanticism that enables Londo to see his relationship with Adira as love instead of sex and money makes him dream of the "mighty days of the Centauri Republic", a romantisized past he has never experienced and yearns for. "A washed up Republican, dreaming of better days" as he says to Adira, and that's what Morden hooks into, later. There is also the fear of being empty inside - a phrase G'Kar will later use - "do you know you're empty, Mollari?" - and the irony is that this isn't true; he is many things, several of them bad, but not empty. But he's afraid of that, and it drives him, too. This is also the first time the audience can see how charming Londo can be in his ebullient mode, and his ability to love, because he really does love Adira, and will continue to for the rest of the show. In terms of other relationships he has, you can see he and Vir have become closer - Vir has the cure for Londo's hangover ready, Londo casually tucks him under the chin - and if you switch the sound of, you'd think he and G'Kar are drinking buddies in the first scene in the Dark Star, with their body language entirely comfortable and relaxed around each other, in direct contrast to their verbal language. First season Londo is basically summed up in the scene where after being late due to getting laid, he strolls into the negotiation room, tells Vir he's a treasure (complete with chin chucking - I bet no one has touched Vir as often in his life as Londo does, given what we later learn of Vir's family), greets G'Kar amiably because that will make G'Kar angry and kisses Ko'Dath's hand. On the darker end of the spectrum, the fact Londo doesn't take this negotation serious underlines his disbelief in the possibility of peace, which will have far reaching consequences.

2) The Centauri culture fleshed out. Adira, btw, is one of the very few Centauri not of the nobility we meet in the entire show. The way the nobility intrigues against each other, blackmail and all, Londo's love/hate attitude towards his title and status, all this is introduced here.

3) The gags here are genuinenly funny, whether it's the bit with Vir's gameboy (which G'Kar plays with by the time Londo shows up) or our very first Londo/G'Kar slash joke (which Sinclair makes - "you'll agree to my compromise on the Euphrates sector" - "I'll even seal it with a kiss" - "That should make G'Kar's day").

4) Sinclair's dinner with Talia underlines the way Talia is a part of the B5 command staff, which won't be true of Lyta later, who is far more an outsider from the get go.

5) Adira's departure feels right instead of contrived - if she remained, it would feel as if Londo had become her new owner instead of her becoming a free woman. It's interesting, btw, that we later found out Londo's first wife - the one he divorced very soon because his family made him choose between them and her - was also a dancer.

"Moon-faced assassin of joy." How can anything at all top this line? :)

Londo becomes very real in this episode and he stays real for all the series. Though we will see Sinclair and Sheridan in important roles, Londo is really the character that the entire series revolves around. Mr. Morden uses him but in the end, the choices are Londo's and everyone pays for Londo's choices, most of all Londo himself. Londo might have been a romantic but he was still no fool.

Ivanova's bit shows us that there is a person inside the rough exterior and we also see that the one person on the station who knows everything is Mr. Garibaldi, nearly to the point of obsession.

I can't say much good about Talia. She always annoyed me and so did Lyta. The former a butt kiss and the latter a sactimonious rebel. I suppose I just never liked the teeps.

ON a more general note, I can't express how much fun it is to rewatch this series again. It's fun to read what other fans think about it too. Many thanks to

ruuger!

"I suppose I just never liked the teeps."
Both of them bug me to no end as well, Lyta moreso as the series went on. I'd explain more, but I don't want to reveal Season5 spoilers.

Ah but this is the spoiler thread! :)

...So it is! Silly me being all considerate.

The Season5 Telepath "I have a chip on my shoulder" War annoyed me to no end.

Lyta was pretty much treated like deus ex machina by the crew for a lot of season 4. So she had a right to get angry, but instead she just became petulant. Whine whine whine.

I agree! She whined endlessly! Now Bester... he was a teep I loved to hate but both Talia and Lyta weren't so worthy of hate just... indifference, to tell the truth!

Bester is as close to a proper comic book Super Villain as B5 gets.

Morden, just a used car salesman from the devils' lot.
Shadows, an ancient evil high on the smell of their own feet (claws?)
Clark, a puppet with charisma.
Bester? He is convinced he is in the right, and he will kill anyone he has to to meet his goals. Super Villain.

...but no cape.

When I first watched this ep in season 1, I thought it just a stand alone story, but upon this rewatching I find so many clues as to the whys of Londo.

Londo was so very complex. The birth of what he becomes can be found here.

I loved Sinclair, Sheridan and Garibaldi, but Londo and G'Kar intrigued me.Londo and G'Kar made choices, lived through the consequences and made new choices again. How they changed was always reflected in the new choices. This complexity unfolded so slowly one almost forgot how the characters had started out.

Also with this episode we learn just how well Garibaldi does know the station and what's going on. He is a keeper of secrets and another individual that has learned through his choices. (I HATE what Bester did to him!)

I just finished watching the last few episodes of S5 with my dad in December, so it's really nice to see happy Londo and happy Vir and happy, in-control Garibaldi again! Not to mention all the little things.

I must admit, I get insanely happy whenever Londo and Vir touch. The chin thing in this episode, the hand-on-shoulder thing that hapens a lot, hugging, whatever, it doesn't matter, it always reduces me to squealy little puddle of fangirl goo. I love me my moon-faced assassin of joy!

I never noticed this before, but when Sinclair and G'Kar first confront Londo, G'Kar keep looking over his shoulder to oggle the chick on stage! Hah!

I always wonder about the alien races who don't have representation in the League of Non-Aligned Worlds, like Trakis himself, and several of the background aliens. Do they have names/cultures? Where do they fit in? Some of them just feel like excuses for big ugly thugs, but I'm still curious about the rest.

Hehe. G'Kar always had an eye for the ladies too!

I wonder if in the Role Playing Games, they gave names to more of the aliens as they did in the Star Wars Universe.

I wonder if in the Role Playing Games, they gave names to more of the aliens as they did in the Star Wars Universe.

There are certainly more on the map. I'd guess Trakis comes from one of the races on the far side of Centuari space, who probably regard the humans as being too far away and primitive compared with the Centauri to be worth coming to B5 for. The Lumati also fall into this
category, so this may be starting to change during the series.

Sigh. Much as I like Lyta's character arc, as a person I'm more fond of Talia. This was a good ep for her.

Also, when I re-watched "Midnight on the Firing Line" I was surprised by how wooden Sinclair came off--that wasn't how I remembered him at all. Even just two episodes in, he comes off much more naturally.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone else want to know how it was G'Kar and his aide ended up playing Vir's game while they were waiting for Londo?

*obliges*

G'Kar pretended to suspect Vir of secretly communicating with Londo through that device, and/or of doing sinister anti-Narn things, and claimed he needed to investigate it rather than just believe Vir's denials. Vir was not just intimidated but aware this was a lie by a very bored G'Kar and nice enough not to ask it back but explain the rules when G'Kar really got going.

Thanks!

What I saw this time was Londo's story starting its tragic arc. He is terribly sympathetic here, both with Adira, his awareness of his own status (or lack of same), and his fond, if preemptory treatment of Vir. If she had stayed, would he ever really be sure Adira loved him, and not his family and position? His letting her go was so right.
I'll never forget Adira's end; it must have been the final proof Londo needed that the Universe was malignly stacked against him.

I love the insight into Ivanova's character. I think she would have gotten clearance to use the Gold channel if she had asked, but her unwillingness to admit to her own vulnerability and her wishing to keep up her stoic reserved image in front of the others led her to both break the rules, and lie to Garibaldi about what she was doing. I had also forgotten how stunningly beautiful she is; packing a lot of emotion into her facial expressions alone in the scene with her father.

The Centauri culture is revealed, at least partially, with its emphasis on bloodlines, family, prestige, and honor. How did Adira become a slave? Was she sold by her family, or was it a failure to pay debts? Or can Centauri women sell themselves...it's said to be a contract, so is it more like indentured servitude? Can Centauri men be slaves? How do the other races feel about having slaves working on the station? Is it tolerated in terms of cultural differences, or are there rules and regulations concerning their treatment?
I think about these things too much...

Because JMS pinched a lot from the Romans when it comes to the Centauri, my personal fanon for the slave status is that while Centauri can sell themselves into slavery, what happens, if it does, is the head of family sells someone or all of his family to pay debts. This however while legal is regarded as a horrible shame (by other Centauri, and not the slavery as such but the idea Centauri would sink that low), and makes the slaves in question outcasts whom free Centauri would have nothing to do with. Hence Londo's initial shock when Trakis tells him Adira is a slave. (And hence Adira keeping it secret on the station from the start, long before Trakis tells her to steal the files.)

How the people on the station feel: given that Sinclair can lean on Trakis to release Adira from her contract at Londo's request, I would guess that there is some clause in the station's status stating that slavery isn't practiced on the station. Not off station, since B5 has no authority about the customs of other people, of course.

I always feel really wistful when I watch this episode. Like others have said, it harkens back to a still marginally innocent Londo and Garibaldi where neither one of them have had the universe stack so overwhelmingly against them. Londo's love for Adira is genuine, and I some times wonder what would have happened to Londo post-S3 if she hadn't died.

Part of the reason I do love this episode as well is that for me, this is the first episode that really takes the emphasis away from Sinclair and focuses it on the supporting cast: Ivanova and Garibaldi; Londo, Vir and Adira, etc. While Babylon 5 is supposed to revolve around first Sinclair, then Sheridan, I find that some of the best stories come when the "starring" officer fades more into the background and the rest of the ensemble is allowed to shine through.

Part of the reason I do love this episode as well is that for me, this is the first episode that really takes the emphasis away from Sinclair and focuses it on the supporting cast: Ivanova and Garibaldi; Londo, Vir and Adira, etc. While Babylon 5 is supposed to revolve around first Sinclair, then Sheridan, I find that some of the best stories come when the "starring" officer fades more into the background and the rest of the ensemble is allowed to shine through.

I wouldn't say that B5 is supposed to revolve around the two commanders, necessarily; I'd say more that it's supposed to revolve around the ideas and philosophy, and the two commanders are the main (though not only) vehicle to explore the ideas with. But as to who I like to watch the most on B5, I agree totally. Sheridan and Sinclair are good characters, but very much in the typical SF hero mode. It's the other characters who are the most unique and thus the most interesting to watch.

Many scifi series revolve around the captains, and many viewers are used to this forumla. It is good to see someone notice the departure from regular formula scifi television.

- I find there’s not a lot to say about these early episodes, other than “Man, this is kinda depressing when you know how it’s all going to end up.”

- There’s a lot of great little jokes here – I like G’kar glancing back to check out the human dancer in the first scene.

- It always vaguely bugs me when a major character in an episode is a one-off alien species. B5 doesn’t have a lot of aliens of the week, so it stands out far more when one appears – they don’t feel like they belong. It doesn’t ruin the episode, but I’d really have preferred it if Trakis had been a Drazi or a Markab or something – or if his species had appeared in the background in other episodes.

- Wait a second; is the guy in the Zocalo buying the noseless alien woman flowers the same guy that tried to pick up Ko’dath in the club? Guess someone’s got an alien fetish…

- Just how much is Trakis paying n’grath that he thinks merely doubling it will be enough to make up for the damage caused by attacking the station commander and the Centauri ambassador? I guess he thinks if he’s getting the data to blackmail any Centauri house, he can afford high expenses in acquiring them… I can’t imagine mind-probes, cloaked microphones or tazer gloves come cheap either.

- I’m always amused that one of the thugs sent after Londo and Sinclair is wearing sunglasses. On a space station. In a dark corridor. You just *know* he’s convinced he’s the coolest guy on the station – and everyone else wonders how the hell he can see… I bet he made up that “Gun One” codename himself, and uses it at every opportunity.

- Are Centauri slaves mentioned anywhere else? I’ve always wondered how common it is; common enough that it’s apparently not a big deal than a non-Centauri would have one, it seems.

- It always vaguely bugs me when a major character in an episode is a one-off alien species. B5 doesn’t have a lot of aliens of the week, so it stands out far more when one appears – they don’t feel like they belong. It doesn’t ruin the episode, but I’d really have preferred it if Trakis had been a Drazi or a Markab or something – or if his species had appeared in the background in other episodes.

One of the things I like about Season 1, actually, is that we have less common aliens in the background--it seems like we only had the main races in the later seasons. I think that Trakis is supposed to be the same species as the family in "Believers." Hold on! *grabs the B5 Monster Manual--err, the Larry DiTillo Guide to B5 Aliens* .. .Hm, no, okay, they're just the same race as the alien fighter in TKO. Apparently, Trakis is a Golian, and those three are Onteen. I get the sense from this that Larry DiTillo was the one who was pushing a lot of the odder aliens and alien worldbuilding, and when he had a reduced role in the show as JMS took on more writing responsibilities, the aliens got streamlined.

- Wait a second; is the guy in the Zocalo buying the noseless alien woman flowers the same guy that tried to pick up Ko’dath in the club? Guess someone’s got an alien fetish…

And not to keep picking on your comment, here, but apparently that guy is played by Chuck Norris' son. (The things you learn...)

"- It always vaguely bugs me when a major character in an episode is a one-off alien species. B5 doesn’t have a lot of aliens of the week, so it stands out far more when one appears – they don’t feel like they belong. It doesn’t ruin the episode, but I’d really have preferred it if Trakis had been a Drazi or a Markab or something – or if his species had appeared in the background in other episodes."

Since he's a one off "not as important race" political dealings with the Centari won't factor in. If he was drazzi, I'm sure he'd be connected to Something, Somehow that could factor in another political dealing. This way, he's just a jackass who owns a slave and can be a mean SOB and not cause "an incident".

Something that I hadn't thought about before: How long do you think that Londo and Adira had been seeing each other in this episode?

Previously I'd thought that when Londo finds Adira in his quarters, it was because Trakis had send her to him and this was their first night together. On this viewing, however, I got the impression that it was not their first encounter (and Trakis only forced her to steal the files after he'd found out that she was having an affair with Londo).

First night: no, I don't think so. The way she blows him a kiss from the stage in the teaser looked to me as if they had already been physically intimate at this point. On the other hand, I think Trakis didn't find out, he knew from the start. He asks "how are things going with the ambassador?", not "So, I hear you're seeing the ambassador". IMO he either told Adira outright to start an affair with Londo or he immediately pounced after seeing that Londo was interested, because he probably was after those files - and revenge on the Centauri - from the get-go.

Trakis might have set her on Londo a long time before the ep starts, but have figured that it takes a while to get close enough to be able to get to the Purple Files. That would give the two of them time to get a acquainted, and also once she fell in love she'd probably have started stalling, which explains why he doesn't buy her excuses (besides her inability to lie) and gives her the mind-probe thingy.

I'd forgotten the Ivanova sub-plot in this. For the tiny amount of screentime she gets, Christian does an amazing amount with her material (those reaction shots to her dad just killed me).

But, of course, this one's really all about Londo. It's an amazing set-up for what comes later - and I love his relationship with Adira. He's such a fascinatingly complex character, and I love that his weaknesses and the things that make him likeable are so close together - his romantic streak being, as

selenak says, a large part of the way Morden hooks him later on.

What I really didn't remember was how cracked-out the bad guys were in this! First the bar guy who doesn't recognise either the station commander *or* the ambassador who'd been hanging out in his bar all the time? What? And then n'grath apparently quite happy to go along with Trakis' insane LET'S KILL ALL THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE BECAUSE THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAVE ANY LONG-TERM REPERCUSSIONS strategy... really, what? Mostly I don't care, though, because the rest of the plot is so good. This is the show up and running, right here.

Oh yes, the bad guys really were... something. Though the not-recognizing-the-station-commander thing is a bit more believable than not recognizing the regular customer; presumably Sinclair doesn't go to the Dark Star otherwise and doesn't make broadcasts on the BabCom - that's what he has Ivanova for *g*. Otoh, in Crusade we get the episode where Lochley makes a bet with Gideon that she'll be recognized without her uniform on the station anyway, wherever they go, and she is, which might be JMS acknowledging this bit of the plot was, err, less than credible. *g*

Ivanova's subplot: also reminds me that this is when she loses the last of her biological family, with her brother gone since the Earth/Minbari war, and we know about her mother. And how fiercely private she is; later in the show she might have shared her father's illness with someone - Garibaldi, Franklin, Talia (if we're talking late s2 before Divided Loyalties), or even Delenn. But not at this point.

Though the not-recognizing-the-station-commander thing is a bit more believable than not recognizing the regular customer; presumably Sinclair doesn't go to the Dark Star otherwise

Slightly more! But we know he was in there with G'Kar and Londo only, what, two days earlier? And Londo must have been in there all the time. Craziness, anyway. *g*

That's very true about Ivanova - she's very alone here, more so than even after Marcus' death. It's funny - she's never terribly open to people, but in comparison with how she is a couple of years later, she seems desperately closed in on herself. (Though the speech from her father was hilariously As-You-Know-Bob... exposition is hard!)

Exposition is. The funny thing is, JMS swings it far better in Centauri scenes. I mean, Midnight on the Firing Line has Londo give Sinclair the all important information about his death dream and it doesn't feel forced, and in Born to the Purple, Londo and Adira convey information about a society they both come from which still doesn't feel redundant (presumably because when Adira says "I am Centauri; your title pleases me", it comes across as half-teasing, half serious and conveys something about the relatioship as well.

...and then we have Lorien in season 4. Who could be called Walking Exposition. *cringes*

What struck me as even odder was that it's *Londo* who wears a hood to conceal his identity, not Sinclair. Surely the bar guy's going to be a lot less suspicious of Londo, regular customer and good-natured drunk, coming in to see the dancers than the station commander?

And I'm standing by my theory that n'grath is the ambassador for his people - the guy has to have diplomatic immunity or something to think he can get away with the stuff he pulls...

I think a lot of the "What?" moments that don't make sense in this, can be attributed to this being "Season 1" of an untested SCIFI series and producers/executives are Expecting to see certain chestnuts in their SCIFI. JMS had to set his stage before he could get serious with the series, as I'm sure he was leaned on a lot for certain script elements. One can't write a huge epic without earning your board room lumps first.

And well, maybe JMS had to get some cliches out of his keyboard before he could get the real Meaty stories out.

Getting in on the convo late, due to dead power supply.
Things I love:
A) G'Kar is a dirty old Narn.
B) A Plot and B Plot linked by themes. Namely: revealed shame and the things we inherit.
C) Cheek pinchies!

"Born to the Purple" discussion [spoilers]

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