"War without End" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episodes 3X16 and 3x17 "War Without End, Parts 1 & 2". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Sinclair, Delenn and Sheridan travel back in time to rescue Babylon 4.

Extra reading:
The article for "War Without End", Part 1 and Part 2 at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

oddly, providing the end of Londo’s storyline a season or two before we get the middle.

Last year an aquaintance finished watching B5 and promptly complained we never find out what happens to Londo and G'Kar. I said "but didn't you watch WWE? We find out in s3!" "You mean that was real?" he asked back.

It was a daring storytelling choice, and totally worked for me, for reasons mentioned in my comment below. Though admittedly during the original broadcast I was still so conditioned by earlier sci fi that I expect this timeline to change by subsequent actions so Londo's fate would be prevented.

On that note, I like how the future destruction of Centauri Prime is treated with the same sort of importance most shows would reserve for Earth alone.


Yes yes yes. One of many reasons why I love the show.

(And it may just be me, but it’s hard not to see Sinclair and Garibaldi’s relationship as at least a little slashy, particularly when there’s the parallel between future Delenn trying futily to warn Sheridan not to go to Z’ha’dum and Sinclair impulsively trying to warn past Garibaldi.)

It's not just you. I remember back in the day Garibaldi/Sinclair being the biggest slash 'ship in a mostly het oriented fandom. :) Re: slashy parallels - there's also the use of "old friend" by Sinclair towards Garibaldi and Londo towards G'Kar in the flash forward. Seriously though, I think Garibaldi really loved Sinclair, whether one wants to interpret that as utterly platonic and fraternal or in a more subtextual and homoerotic manner, and it took him a long, long time to get over Sinclair leaving and the reality of never seeing him again.

Re: Bester's manipulations - I'm always torn as to whether the whole "Face of the Enemy" thing would have worked better or worse for B5 as originally conceived, with Sinclair instead of Sheridan. On the one hand, Garibaldi handing over Sinclair to Clark's forces would have been incredibly gut wrenching and would have had exactly the tpe of "betrayal with a kiss/ best friends turned against each other" resonance JMS was obviously going for in the final product as well, where it doesn't quite have that resonance to me because Sheridan and Garibaldi were never that close. Otoh, Garibaldi turning against Sinclair instead of Sheridan would have been so obviously the product of outside forces interfering that Our Heroes would have looked incredibly dumb not to twig that far earlier in s4, whereas Garibald turning against Sheridan could have happened in a believable fashion without Bester's influence.

Lucy and Ethel: he, even at the time of first broadcast as a non-American I had no idea what he was talking about and had to look it up. I also misheard "Lewis and Clark" as "Lois & Clark" (which was broadcasting during that period as well) and wondered which of the two Sinclair cast mentally as Superman, and whom as Lois Lane...

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

If it had still been Sinclair in S4, I suspect it would be hard not to read Garibaldi quiting as the result of jealousy over Jeff leaving him for Lorien... *grin*