b5_revisited | "The War Prayer" discussion [spoilers]

This episode is interesting for lots of reasons, all but one to do with culture.

There's the fear of other cultures, as embodied in Malcolm and the Home Guard. Then there's the respect for cultural traditions as evinced by Londo in his initial refusal to consider helping the two young Centauri lovers (and I adore our first glimpse of Londo's three wives, Plague, Famine and Death, heh!), and then there's the enlightened (in this instance anyway) contribution of Minbari culture, as embodied by Shaal Mayaan, which is eager to interact with and learn from other cultures and can even take the very negative experience she has in this episode with certain sections of human society and turn it into something positive.

In fact, cultural flexibility and the willingness to adapt and subtly alter traditions, is also how Londo ends up solving the problem of the two young people. Having been badly bruised by inflexible cultural rules in the past, he finds it in himself to have enough compassion on the two youngsters to find a third way for them.

Malcolm himself turns out to be not much of a threat. He completely misjudges Ivanova and Sinclair and is easily fooled by them, but he and his unpleasant cohorts are a great, big stonking warning sign that all is not well with the Earth that created Babylon 5.

The other important point raised in this episode is the whole business of Kosh and the poisoning through the encounter suit from the pilot episode. When I first saw this episode, I was beyond impressed that this seeming gaffe had not been buried and that the sudden departure of Doctor Kyle of and Lyta Alexander was to be made a plot point rather than smoothed over as if those two characters had never existed, because B5 was the first time I saw this kind of joined-up thinking in TV sci-fi.

Edited 2009-03-08 21:15 (UTC)

Oh, there's so much here!

- the Centauri - we get quite a lot of insight into Centauri noble society from this one. The emphasis, again, on tradition; Londo's arranged marriages; the emphasis on power and wealth. Also, on a more personal level, Londo's marshmallow centre *g* and again the glimpse of vulnerability ("my shoes are too tight, and I have forgotten how to dance"). I also notice that Vir really stands up to Londo here; he argues with him early on, and then comes back all geared up to tell Londo that he's wrong *g*. Vir's gentle and mild most of the time, but he does have that ability to "speak truth to power". And I like the way Londo manages to manipulate the respect for custom and tradition to get what he wants!

- Ivanova. Oh, poor Ivanova. And this is only the first of her poor romantic choices! She does fall for the worst possible people. I love how Christian plays it, too; we can see Ivanova's pain and hurt, as she subsumes it into her duty. But I do love that first scene with her and Garibaldi, arm-twisting and bantering and generally winding each other up *g*. Those two are so much fun to watch together.

- the call-back to the pilot! Sinclair, like most of us, wants to know why the plot didn't make sense *g*. OK, so we still don't get an answer, but I love that they mentioned it like that.

- the Home Guard - that's a thread that'll come back plenty of times yet. Creepy, dangerous, yet super-dumb (I couldn't believe they were actually *convinced* by Sinclair! *g*)

- and G'Kar, after last episode's uncharacteristic (so far!) act of generosity, is back to his usual demagoguery and general trouble-making. He has a long way to go yet.

- and G'Kar, after last episode's uncharacteristic (so far!) act of generosity, is back to his usual demagoguery and general trouble-making. He has a long way to go yet.

Though he still had a point, no? He didn't know what Sinclar & Company were doing to stop the attacks, and even if he had I'm not sure it would have made him feel better to know that the senior command was posing as violent racists.

I noted Delenn's facial expression while Sinclair was snubbing the alien woman. I wonder if she ever followed up on him (and possibly reprimanded him for his rather stupid plan).

I wonder if she ever followed up on him (and possibly reprimanded him for his rather stupid plan).

I like to think so! *g*

I don't think G'Kar had enough of a point to justify inciting a riot. Yes, it's annoying that nothing visible is being done, but it's not always possible to solve things on command. He doesn't, at that point, have any real reason to assume that the senior staff *are* engaging in bad faith, and they actually are working flat-out to try and catch the bad guys. I think he's being unreasonable - and even if he were totally right, starting a riot still isn't much of a help with the overall problem!

That's a good point. He had some right on his side but was pushing it to far, probably more for his own aggrandizement than a genuine desire to help aliens (and does he honestly care about non-Narn aliens at this point? Likely not.)

I couldn't believe they were actually *convinced* by Sinclair!

Is this a slander on our good commander's acting abilities? *veg*

BTW, I agree with

likeadeuce that G'Kar had a point but also on this stage was more interested in being against something than for something.

I adore Sinclair, but he was so utterly unconvincing as an Ev0l Villain *g*.

I wonder if some of the reputation of the folks who fought on the Line helped with this. I mean, it was a pretty iconic battle -- Earth's last defense against the invading Minbari, something that most people expected to be a heroic failure even when it was being planned*, saved only by aliens being inscrutable.

* But still worth doing. Says a lot about humans that something like this becomes so iconic.

Knowing that Sinclair was on the Line probably primed Malcom's expectations, especially if he knew veterans from that battle had been easily recruited before.

Except he's only reaching back to something has did feel. In the next episode he says 'It was years before I could look at a Minbari without wanting to strangle him with my bare hands' with real venom. I liked his act here, precisely because it made sense. He's actually moved on, but Biggs has probably met several people who couldn't and so is convinced.

No, I suppose there's a point there. I can see why Biggs would buy it, particularly since a) he would want to, and b) there's the "loyalty test" and all lined up for him, so they're not just taking him for that one comment. I just - watching, I found Sinclair utterly unconvincing *g*.

Not much to add, except Garibaldi's exhortation to Sinclair about his death wish didn't do much good, did it? Risking the top two commanding officers on the station in a dicey clandestine operation like that?

Does this introduction to B5 lead the Abbai ambassador to distrust the human's intentions, as I think I remember her demonstrating in Deathwalker?

I thought Mayan's question to Delenn was very poignant; 'do you ever regret the choices you have made?' And I love their relationship.

We spend a great deal of time fast forward, reversing, and freeze-frame exploring Susan's quarters, kitchen accessories, artwork, and knick-knacks. I simply love the interior decoration on this show. Every place is personal, and unique, and appropriately and interestingly decorated.

This is an episode which illustrates, imo, why JMS ultimately made the right decision when mounting the Sisyphus task of writing all the episodes himself. It's not that The War Prayer is bad, as such, and D.C. Fontana was a well-respected scriptwriter of the genre - unless I remember wrong, she wrote Journey to Babel, the Star Trek episode which introduces Spock's parents, Sarek and Amanda, and remains a favourite for many ST fans to this day - but it's all a bit pat and simplified compared with other episodes, and it could have been far more complex.

I'm mostly thinking of the Centauri subplot; if this had been a season or two later, or even at the end of this season, I think JMS would have found a way to a) tie Londo's original refusal to help the youngsters to either his recent experience with Adira (I strongly suspect that D.C. Fontana wrote this episode either without having been told about "Born to the Purple" or indeed before "Born to the Purple" was written), or his very first marriage (the one to the dancer, which led to an ultimatum by his family which led to annulment), or his ambitions (maybe one or both set of parents hold the key to getting more noticed by the Emperor?) or both. Which would make both the refusal and the change of mind be more tied to the overall arc. I mean, you can still fanwank it without much effort, but the episode itself could have made some connections.

This being said: the Centauri scenes gave me some things I liked very much indeed, to wit, progress in the Londo-and-Vir interaction. This episode marks the first time we see Vir stand up to Londo on a matter of principle, which of course a season later will happen in a far more serious context; we see Vir's self-confidence has grown enough for this. At the same time, he and Londo have grown quite familiar; see Vir helping Londo dress, which I don't think we see with any of the other attachés and their respective ambassadors, which tells us something not just about the individuals in question but their cultures. The outstanding scene in this episode, the conversation between Londo and Vir in the garden, ending with Londo's "nor should you" is an early preparation for one of the most heartrendering scenes of the show in s4, Vir's drunken breakdown after he killed Cartagia and Londo's "when you first came to the station, you were so innocent" reply ending with "...you still have your heart, and your heart is a good one; you would not be in such pain otherwise. And for that, I still envy you" reply. It doesn't surprise me that this particular scene was an insert by JMS, because it really goes deeper than the rest of the scenes. The whole "my shoes are too tight and I have forgotten how to dance" is a great illustration of one of Londo's basic problems and traits, that he has internalized the taboos, ambitions and rules of his world, even while recognizing some of them as wrong, too much to cast them off even if he were given the freedom to do so. It's what leads Londo to believe he has no freedom of choice now, despite of the fact he actually does. (As he recognizes five years later.)

Trivia: as with the Beth Toussaint/Melissa Gilbert swap for Anna Sheridan later, the actresses used for the photos of Londo's wives aren't the ones from Soul Mates. The Centauriphile in me wishes they had reshot that scene for the dvd...*g*

The main plot can be summed up with: Xenophobia Is Bad. Which I agree with, of course, but this show quite often finds ways of making those points a tad subtler. Also, this is the third ex (fourth if we count the pilot) of a regular to show up, which feels repetitive, and there is no end in sight (aka we'll meet Lise before the season is over). It doesn't help that Claudia Christian is acting somewhat stiff in the early scenes with Susan and her old lover, or that the guy in question is about as more dimensional as Franklin's old professor, also only a few episodes earlier, which to say not at all. I didn't really feel Susan's disappointment when she realised what he was up to on the station. In retrospect and bearing the whole show in mind (i.e. both the Talia and the Marcus experience to come), I do feel very sorry for her - Susan Ivanova really can enter "unluckiest in love" competitions on this station - and of course I'm glad that at no point is she presented as a damsel in distress, but as someone whose resolve is immediate, once she finds out the truth, but I can't help but wonder whether I would have been grabbed more by this plot if her ex had been someone the audience could, for however short a while, actually wish her to be with.

On the bright side of things again, I really like Shaal Mayan, Delenn's interaction with her (Delenn & other Minbari scenes are usually of the win), and Delenn being in a rare severe mode with Sinclair. Also, I appreciate the continuity of G'Kar doing what in this season is presented as rabble-rousing and in future seasons will be presented as making inspiring, defiant speeches - it all depends on the narrative point of view, doesn't it? - as well as Sinclair still being somewhat cool towards him, though not as openly hostile as he was in "Midnight on the Firing Line". The warming up happens gradually.
Continuity-wise, growing xenophobia on Earth is of course important, and the episode via Sinclair's faked speech makes an effort to tie it to the relatively recent Earth/Minbari war, which makes sense. I find myself wondering whether a stronger emotional punch wouldn't have been if our villain of the hour had been an old war comrade of Sinclair's OR Ivanova's, with his willingness to go after aliens directly tied to his experience in a genocidal war. It would have made them feel far more conflicted, too. Ah well. On to the next episode!

I find myself wondering whether a stronger emotional punch wouldn't have been if our villain of the hour had been an old war comrade of Sinclair's OR Ivanova's, with his willingness to go after aliens directly tied to his experience in a genocidal war.

Oh, that would have been wonderful! I was thinking something similar during Sinclair's bit about how "We had a saying; the only good alien is a dead one" - compare it with his line next episode about how after the Battle of the Line, for years afterward he had to fight the urge to strangle every Minbari he saw, and you kind of wonder how much Sinclair was just saying what he thought Home Guard wanted to hear, and how much of it was real feelings he used to have...

Sinclair's arc of eventually ending up as Valen (and giving up his human existence for this) is all the more powerful if you consider he must have gone through a phase where he hated every Minbari he saw. Now obviously by the time we meet him in B5, he's not just past that but actively interested in working for reconciliation, but yes, he probably dug up some emotions he at some point felt though knew to be wrong in order to fool Malcolm.

Rather a weak episode; it spends too long beating you over the head with the message that bigotry is bad. Well, sure, but a little subtlety is nice; everyone pretty much agrees the KKK aren’t nice people.

- One of the few times we see an ordinary Minbari. It’s nice to see a civilian Minbari – and to see Delenn does have friends. I wonder if Mayan knows Delenn is Satai – Lennier knew, but he was presumably briefed when he was assigned to Babylon 5. How well known are the Grey Council’s members to everyday Minbari?

- Is poet considered a specifically religious caste role? Or are the three castes separate enough that they have their own culture and entertainment? I’d assume they would – they have their own languages, after all.

- The ‘branding’ looks to me less like ‘a painful and permanent disfigurement’ and more like ‘a rubber stamp of some sort’. Kinda takes away from the scene…

- Hey, it’s our second unconvincing former lover in two weeks! This one’s actually less believable than Talia/Ironheart was. Susan’s sense of betrayal would probably come across stronger if a, they hadn’t already broken up eight years before, b, they had any chemistry whatsoever, and c, if he hadn’t come across as a slimy loser right from the start already…

- Vir claiming to be the ambassador seems a little out of character, particularly for season 1 Vir. I’m going to personally assume his relative merely misinterpreted his messages…

- Dear god, the ‘comedy’ music in this episode is irritating.

- Also one of the few times we see ordinary Centauri. I wonder, are Kiron and Aria – and Vir for that matter – more in line with mainstream Centauri society than Londo or the other major Centauri we see in the series? Is there a generational difference? The new generation, who never knew a time when the Centauri were the dominant power, not seeing the point in holding to the old traditions and power structures?

- The Kosh scene doesn’t do much for me. We get a reminder of one of the pilot’s biggest plot holes – which considering we never get an explanation, is arguably worse than never mentioning it – and an attempt to build the mystery of Kosh and the Vorlons by showing how he’s… studying the history of the people he’s living among. Not exactly the most cryptic thing Kosh has ever done.

- Sinclair infiltrating Home Guard has, I think, the same problems as him going into the club with Londo in “Born to the Purple” – when you think about it logically, it does make some sense – why would a club owner know the station commander on sight, and hate groups tend to assume they’re just saying what everyone’s thinking – but from a dramatic point of view, it feels too easy to accept on a first viewing.

- Sinclair’s ‘plan’ seems to me like it would cause more trouble that it would solve. He deliberately snubs an alien ambassador, mutters about how ‘the only good alien’s a dead one’ at a diplomatic function, then decides to give the B5 council the impression that he’s intentionally sheltering the perpetrators of the attacks – god knows why, I doubt Home Guard follows the meetings of the council closely. This is in an atmosphere where retaliatory attacks are already taking place, and crowds of aliens are apparently already convinced that security is unwilling to act against human criminals. Sure, they catch Home Guard in the end – but I doubt the arrest of four individuals is enough to defuse the toxic environment Sinclair helped to create. Hate groups *thrive* in environments where the authorities are perceived as being sympathetic to them – both because it emboldens their own people, and makes minority groups less likely to report attacks, since they think there’s no point. I somehow doubt a quick announcement that “It’s OK, I was just trying to fool the bad guys!” will do much to eliminate those perceptions.

- I also rather wonder what Delenn made of all this – she was already furious that Sinclair hadn’t done enough to prevent the attack on her friend.

How well known are the Grey Council’s members to everyday Minbari?

Probably not so much, otherwise every single Minbari coming to the station would have greeted Delenn as Satai, and would have made her discretion about the subject superfluos. As to whether Mayan knows, they seem familiar enough that I'd go with a yes. Come to think of it, we see/hear from three Minbari friends Delenn has/had in the first season - Mayan, Draal and the late Brammer; and of course there was Dukhat as her mentor. Whereas in later seasons her only Minbari friend seems to be Lennier, with enemy-becoming-ally Neroon in a category of his own.

I wonder, are Kiron and Aria – and Vir for that matter – more in line with mainstream Centauri society than Londo or the other major Centauri we see in the series? Is there a generational difference? The new generation, who never knew a time when the Centauri were the dominant power, not seeing the point in holding to the old traditions and power structures?

Oh, good question! The problem is that the other young Centauri we meet aren't in any way typical - there's Cartagia (no explanation needed why he's not representative), Adira who is a slave (as opposed to Kiro and Aria who are free), and Mariel who is Londo's wife, and one of several, so probably counts as imprinted by the former generation. And Lindysti, who, see Cartagia.

I had no problem with Vir claiming he's the ambassador to his cousin, though. Vir isn't entirely without ambition - when he tells Londo what he wanted from life in season 4 during that heartbreaking drunk scene, he says "a title or two, nothing fancy" as well as the "wife I could love and who maybe could love someone like me". Plus as we hear in season 2, Vir's family thinks very little of him, especially his uncle, and thought his assignment as Londo's attaché one big joke. Vir describes the atmosphere as home as everyone ignoring him and an utter silence. So the idea he'd want to impress the cousin who's not actively ridiculing him by claiming to be the ambassador works for me.

Hm, good point about the downside of Sinclair's plan. Maybe this would make a good Watsonian explanation about something in the next episode, i.e. why Delenn is told to kill Sinclair if he finds out he's Valen prematurely. I can't think of a worse case scenario than someone whom you perceive as filled with hate towards your people discovering the enormous power he could wield by claiming to be their Messiah.

Damn, hit the character limit. Um, am I ranting too much?

- What happened to the Abbai, anyway? They’ve got a big role here, a big role in “Deathwalker”, then they vanish from season 2 onwards, rarely appearing even in crowd scenes. One is tempted to speculate that after their experience in this episode, they pulled out of the Babylon project as soon as possible…

- I’m always amused by Sinclair’s overly enthusiastic “I’d like that!” followed by Ivanova’s almost monotone “Yes.”, in response to Malcom’s proposal they meet his ‘friends’. Sinclair seems to be going too far in his acting, while Ivanova’s unwilling to make any effort to agree…

- I feel Home Guard would have more depth, and come across as little bit more sympathetic, if the group was portrayed as primarily a reaction to the Minbari war, not just generic bigots… hell, G’kar says no Narn have been attacked; would have been fun if Home Guard remembers the Narn assistance during the war and see the Narn regime as a model for how the Earth Alliance should be behaving and as potential allies…

- On that note, what was Mayan doing during the war? Give that story a little depth, maybe she supported the war, wrote poems in anticipation of the destruction of Earth, and Home Guard targeted her specifically. No need to make her a villain – maybe she’s visiting Earth as a sort of repentance gesture – but I think the episode is weakened by never doing much with the idea that it’s been only ten years since a major alien empire was united in their desire to annihilate the human species. Sinclair talks about the Line, but it’s not emphasised that that wasn’t just a battle, but the last stand of humanity against invaders.

- Last scene; whenever a character in science fiction refers to an alien as ‘human’, I’m always reminded of Spock’s bit in Star Trek VI, about how “There’s no need to be insulting!”

Agreed on both Home Guard and Mayan; it would have added much emotional depth and more of a dilemma to our heroes if things had been more shade of grey. As mentioned in my own comment, I think the Malcolm character instead of an unconvincing ex should have been an old comrade from the war whose trauma had driven him to xenophobia and then to violence; someone tragic, rather than an obvious slime bag the audience could only despise. And I like your idea about Mayan.

What happened to the Abbai, anyway?

They resigned from the League of Non-Alligned Worlds as a protest for... something or other, the events of "Deathwalker", I think?

I don't think so, although I think they were one of the races involved. I always thought they were just mostly a fairly insular and peaceful race, and therefore likely to avoid the increasingly violent universe over the next few years.

My two cents... I thought the 'black light' technology the xenophobic people used to appear/disappear reminded me a bit of the way the Shadows appeared/disappeared. An early suggestion that Earth is secretly working with a race that likes to stay, er, in the shadows?

"The War Prayer" discussion [spoilers]

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Part 2

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