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b5_revisited2010-03-08 02:37 am
ruuger) wrote in b5_revisited2010-03-08 02:37 am
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"Ship of Tears" discussion
This is the discussion post for the episode 3X14, "Ship of Tears". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.
Summary:
Bester returns to Babylon 5, this time asking for help to rescue a group of frozen telepaths.
Extra reading:
The article for "Ship of Tears" at Lurker's Guide.
Summary:
Bester returns to Babylon 5, this time asking for help to rescue a group of frozen telepaths.
Extra reading:
The article for "Ship of Tears" at Lurker's Guide.
no subject
But to try for matter-of-factness:
1.) Propaganda!ISN: this time I don't mind JMS versus Journalists, because this is what happens in a fascist state, and Real ISN has presented as heroic before they were stormed.
2.) Bester is back, and you know, of all of Walter Koenig's appearances on this show, which were all good, I think this is the one where he gets to show the most range, from smugly superior to genuinenly shattered, from playing games to serious focus... and it's not that Bester is any less of a magnificent bastard in this one. We simply see more layers. By which I actually don't mean the fact he's in love with someone as much as the highly continuity-relevant information that there are different factions in Psi Corps, which was given for the first time here, and that Bester being a telepath supremacist does not mean he's also in bed with the Shadows. And he's as good with the one liners as ever.
3.) Seriously, one of the things I love best about B5 is that it doesn't do what most genre shows do, simply have all antagonists/villains on the same side, but allow them instead their individual goals, some of which some of the time even coincide with the heroes' goals. Way more realistic and complex this way.
4.) I also love the B-plot around G'Kar and Delenn, which contains what are my two favourite Delenn scenes ever. In five years of show, I never admire and love Delenn more than when, in her meal with Sheridan, she says "WE won't, I will". Delenn insisting on telling G'Kar the truth herself, doing so without obfuscation and accepting the responsibility for the tactical decision she made is fantastic, and also, as I noticed upon rewatch, a great contrast to the constant "we" talk regarding the Earth/Minbari War and the way she regarded becoming half human as a bridge and atonment but without explaining anything about her reasons to the people involved. Not so here. She owns those scenes, both of them, and as the second one is with the mighty Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar, that's really something.
5.) The first time I realised what the "weapons components" telepaths had been meant for, I was completely freaked out. The concept still chills me, more than anything else the Shadows do on this show.
6.) Reversal of expections: whereas the first and second season strongly implied Psi Corps, as a unified whole, was micromanaging Clark, and were directly allied with the Shadows, Bester presents the situation as the other way around: "Through Clark, they (the Shadows)'ve managed to infiltrate Psi Corps." We've talked before about just when the red herrings about Psi Corps being the human Übervillain in the Earth political storyline stopped, and I think it's more that they fade away (much like that other red herring, Centauri Prime sooner or later invading Earth) in the course of the third season, but this is definitely where it gets textual. So from this point onwards we have the Corps presented as split in different factions (not simply as in: future resistance fighters like Lyta when she was still it on the one hand, and Psi Cops on the other, but several factions within the "the corps is mother, the corps is father" believers), and Bester not in a ruling position but as a member of the machinery, albeit an influential one in one of the factions.
7.) Garibaldi works it out: we have two neat show, not tell instances of what makes Garibaldi a good investigator here - he both realises that Carolyn responded to aggressively was Bester's insignia and later makes the big discovery as to why the Shadows both are averse to and want to use telepaths. What nobody at this stage realises, and I didn't, either, is that this makes it highly unlikely telepaths developed by accident. The later revelation that the Vorlons deliberately engineered them as weapons in all the younger races is a logical conclusion.
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The chilling thing being that thus he comes across as bth inhuman and human *at the same time*. A very daring concept from a traditional fantasy/SF perspective, but, I agree, much truer to life.
For me it is this kind of thing that makes B5 stand out.
he concept still chills me, more than anything else the Shadows do on this show
Makes one wonder about the Vorlon ships, which are obviously biotech too.
Interestingly how hints get dropped way before S4 (and its revelations about teeps - I don't think we ever learn about the ships). It's the kind of hint usually only noticed in hindsight, but it makes for solid continuity.
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Garibaldi's revelation at the end is him at his gleeful, triumphant best. 'Do not thump the book of G'Quan. It is disrespectful.' Heh. And I love the term 'mindwalkers' for telepaths.
Franklin's optimism, and naivete, about ISN and Earth, and the crumbling of hope reflected in all their faces as they watched the newscast...wonderful. It shows that the common people on the station understand what's going on, too, as they shake their heads and turn away. There's no help there.
Delenn's scene with G'Kar is one of my favorites, although this time I watched it with rather a jaundiced eye. I had forgotten she used the 'we' construct throughout, referencing the Grey Council of which she was a part, and she never mentioned Kosh as a party to that decision. And I found it the 'I couldn't act against the Council' declaration somewhat disingenuous--I mean, the Council had pretty much told her not to do the Chrysalis transformation and she saw her way clear to defy (some of) them in that case.
I think she was following Kosh more than the Council here, and she doesn't tell G'Kar that. Still, she takes responsibility, in a potentially dangerous one-on-one situation, and I give her massive chops for that.
Her telling G'Kar alone is right (cause John sure wasn't in the loop for the decision to leave Narn to the Centauri's tender mercies) but I caught a whiff of protectiveness, a predictive echo of her 'protecting' him from full knowledge of Anna's fate.
So, interesting re-take for me on that speech.
Bester. Well, I just take a totally different view here. Koenig doesn't sell me on the love story, so it all falls flat. Bester comes across to me as a skeevy bastard, rather than a magnificent one. The whole thing about Susan's mother's eyes? Ick. And whether he had the power to free Carolyn or not, he was still in a higher position of authority than she was as a blip, so getting her better food? In return for sex? With the power imbalance that sort of 'favor' would be hard for Carolyn to interpret. And getting her pregnant in her situation? Double ick. Also I can't help wondering about Bester's wife and daughter...a loveless forced marriage is never a good thing, but I feel for them too. I hope they found love somewhere else, like he did. Especially the daughter.
My husband had an excellent take on Bester here. After Bester makes his pronouncement that telepaths are 'superior' to humans, he then goes on to prove that they are not; that they have every failing of every other human. That's good stuff.
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Actually, all Koenig had to sell the beholder was on how Bester felt about Carolyn. (Which, to me, he did, but eye of the beholder, I suppose.) We'll never know how she felt about him. It could have been that she hated his guts (though in that case, surely taking the sleeper drug would have been preferable? Or even joining the Corps? also, just as a point of speculation, if she had hated him she would have called him "Bester", not "Al"), or that she was utterly pragmatic and saw it strictly as a trade. Granted, they are both strong telepaths, which makes it unlikely in that case he wouldn't have known how she felt, but otoh Bester is quite capable of self delusion. Or, you know, it could be that she loved him back, for all kind of reasons going from Stockholm Syndrome to Bester at his best being charismatic, smart and witty. (Yes, Our Heroes can't stand him, but The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father shows that back home he has to fight the fangirl interns off.) We simply have no way of knowing one way or the other. We do know he didn't brainwash or otherwise reprogram her into becoming a member of the Corps, which indicates her free will was important to him.
To return to Bester: given that he is willing to sacrifice an entire squadron and put up with a great deal of humiliation by the B5 staff in Epiphanies in order to help Carolyn, and until and including his last appearance on the show still expresses the hope they'll be together again, however you want to define the emotion he has for her is certainly strong. Love isn't something only positive characters feel. It doesn't make Bester a better person that he does, too, but it contributes to his characterisation.
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I don't think JMS thought his telepaths through very well actually.
So much of believing in attraction portrayed on screen comes down to the actor's ability to portray it, the build-up of the characters, and your own feelings towards those characters. I understand love isn't something only positive characters feel, but JSM/Koenig just didn't sell it to me. I think JMS meant this to be a real head-turner, a try at a flip, or a view into sudden hidden depths in characterization (like he does with many characters) but it just feels off.
It's true Bester's feelings must have been strong ones, but they seem more like obsession/possession to me. I would have liked to see Bester question the treatment of blips after falling in love with her--he doesn't seem to experience any doubts. I suppose he thinks Carolyn will see the light eventually and re-join the Corps. And there's still the pregnancy factor; that's just weird.
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Mmm, I noticed that too - but it seemed to me she did move towards taking personal responsibility as the scene progressed. It does seem to be a bit of a consistent flaw on Delenn's part that she reflexively avoids individual responsibility or, as we've seen elsewhere, phrases things in the passive voice, and has to make a conscious effort to avoid doing that. Possibly a lingering effect of the Vorlon influence on Minbar...
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This wasn't one of my favorite episodes though it is one that incidcates how deep in with the shadows Clark really is. Thge newscast was chilling. I found Stephen's odd hope that things would work out to be rather contrary to his pessimistic nature. Maybe it was the stems talking.
I sort of wish Sheridan had blown Bester out of the sky and that problem would have been solved. I have to agree with
I liked it that G'Kar didn't let Delenn off the hook so easily when he told her that might forgive her someday but not today. He did seem to join the group with lots of enthusiasm though. I loved his admonisment to Garibaldi not to thump the Book of G'Quan.
When Sheridan said 'we have a weapon,' I found that a chilling statement too since they'd be using the telepaths literally as weapons, more or less, as much as the Shadows did.
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'We have a weapon'
You're right, that's awesome foreshadowing of Sheridan's own 'ends justify the means' issues later in S4.
Bester may have thought Carolyn was the love of his life, but there's no real indication there was anything there beyond obsession. Why the pregnancy plotline btw? Is that supposed to make the love story more appealing, or is it for later, so Sheridan will have a reason beyond practical payback for not using Carolyn in his little plan to disable the EarthForce ships? (He made a point of using single, 'unattached' teeps. Eek.) And what effect would pregnancy have had when Carolyn was plugged into a ship? There's a neat story idea...
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I think it’s fun that Bester has been gathering information about the Shadows for some time – the line in “Dust to Dust” about the Corps being all that stands between humanity and the abyss implied it, and here it’s pretty much confirmed – and now has to organize a conspiracy against his own superiors and the Clark administration. It occurs to me that Bester would have been a much better character to be revealed as “Sheridan’s equal and opposite” than what we eventually got.
(For that matter, they both have lovers turned into Shadow ship CPUs, and Sheridan’s eventual use of the cryo-teeps is at least as ruthless as anything Bester does to Garibaldi – and considering the stakes and timetable of what Edgars was up to, Bester might actually come out ahead morally speaking…)
I do agree that Bester’s relationship with Carolyn has a ton of authority and dubious consent issues – but I also agree that Koenig and the script do sell me into believing that Bester does love her. One thing this episode highlighted for me is that Bester likes to control conversations – his conversation with Ivanova early on seems purely designed to antagonise her, to make it so she’s reacting to him not the other way around. But once he finds out about Carolyn, he stops doing that, and his scene with Sheridan after confronting her is one of the few times in the entire series when he’s not trying to steer a conversation in any direction but just speaking honestly.
- B5 seems to have a lot of ‘Grey’ type aliens, and they all seem to go in for traditional alien-abduction behaviour. Have any of the RPGs or novels or anything made any connections between the Vree, the Streib and the Shadow-allied doctor aliens?
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I think it’s fun that Bester has been gathering information about the Shadows for some time – the line in “Dust to Dust” about the Corps being all that stands between humanity and the abyss implied it, and here it’s pretty much confirmed – and now has to organize a conspiracy against his own superiors and the Clark administration.
Yes. It occurs to me that he could have scanned Garibaldi the first two times he was on the station (the third time he was drugged, so he couldn't have) and found out about the Shadow vessel on Mars and a connection to the Corps this way.
One thing this episode highlighted for me is that Bester likes to control conversations – his conversation with Ivanova early on seems purely designed to antagonise her, to make it so she’s reacting to him not the other way around.
True. It's like working Garibaldi up with the Talia dig in Dust to Dust - something to get a reaction and emotional control of the conversation. Though I've speculated about an additional reason as well (http://archiveofourown.org/works/14021) (in section 5).
But once he finds out about Carolyn, he stops doing that, and his scene with Sheridan after confronting her is one of the few times in the entire series when he’s not trying to steer a conversation in any direction but just speaking honestly.
I'm trying to think of the few other occasions, and can only come up with: monologue to Carolyn in Epiphanies, talking to Sheridan after the mass suicides in Phoenix Rising. There are other examples when he's shaken (for example, with Lochley after the Byron followers were shooting at them, but he still tries to cover by making the joke about hemlines), and other examples when he's likely telling the truth (he is not lying to Garibaldi either in Face of the Enemy or when telling him about the Asimov in s5), but he's always either in control or at least slightly manipulative there. Except on those three occasions.
I haven't read the technomage novels, but the Centauri trilogy and the Psi Cors trilogy makes no connection between the "Grey" types.
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I also agree - I suppose that is implicit in my earlier post.
the monologue that selenak mentions is the best indication, but also in this episode, the abruptness with which he reacts to discovering whose bracelet he is holding.
We are now showwn that, despite earlier appearances, Bester does care about many things, and is quite honest about these, even if they are things that most people would agree are morally wrong.
His belief that telepaths are better than "mundanes" is genuine, and the way in which he regards them as precious is also form of love. He works as character (among other things) because he cares about his causes, and shows the negative and destructive potential of what is normally thought of as a positive emotion: he cares enough to kill.
This way, he is also uncomfortably close to the darker side of each of us, unlike the completely selfish villain of many cheap films, from whom the viewer can distance himself emotionally.