"Grail" discussion [spoilers]

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 1X15, "Grail". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:

Aldous Gajic arrives to B5 in search of the Holy Grail. Meanwhile in Downbelow lurkers are being mindwiped by a mysterious alien in an encountersuit.

Extra reading:

The article for "Grail" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[ruuger]

Did we ever see N'grath again? If not, Deuce taking over Downbelow fits well with the idea that Garibaldi wasn't going after N'grath to avoid having someone nastier take his/her/its place - because Deuce certainly seems like the nastier option based on this episode.

And I wonder what happens with Deuce's trial, seeing that despite all those people witnessing him killing Aldous Gajic, he's out of prison and back on the station in Thirdspace :)

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

It's not clear what happened to N'Grath. There's a new gangster in Hurrah For The Blackshirts Learning Curve, so N'Grath probably disappeared some time before that.

[kathrid.livejournal.com]

According to the RPG, N'grath leaves B5 for places unknown sometime about the time of 'Chrysalis'. I'm sure you don't see him in later seasons, but he might appear again in one of the later Season 1 episodes.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

Was N'Grath ever in charge?
he seems in a specific line of "business", different from extortion.

Or have I just not been paying attention properly ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

An average standalone, with some good character moments and a great David Warner as a guest star. I think A late delivery from Avalon is a better standalone example of how to use Arthurian myths while also telling a character story in connection to the station regulars, but this isn't bad. It's mainly Thomas' and Gajic's story, and they're likeable; the conversations between Delenn and Sinclair work very well (no matter whether intentional or unintentional) as Valen foreshadowing - I'm thinking specifically of Sinclair's words in "War Without End" about having searched all his life - and Deuce is a nasty illustration of the B5 underworld.

Something that amuses me: actually, Vorlons do look a lot like that. With more lightning effects. If you take KoshI and KoshII in the season 4 episode where Kosh II is killed off as examples, because that's the only time we see the Vorlons without anyone responding to the conditioning of seeing them as benevolent religious figures.

Something that annoys me: Christy Cox can't write Centauri. It's not that I mind Londo and Vir being used for comic relief - they quite often are - but just compare these scenes with their two scenes in Parliament of Dreams. In both cases, Londo (and to a lesser degree Vir) only appear briefly and as comic relief in an episode which is about someone else. But in PoD, they're not caricatures of themselves; we laugh with them as much as about them.

[marphilly.livejournal.com]

My favorite bit about this episode was Delenn and Lennier being entirely accepting and admiring of a man devoting his entire life looking for a mythical object.

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

I thought the feeder's 'feeder' looked a bit like another part on the Centauri. Once this entered my mind, I had a hard time paying attention.

David Warner was very good. Perhaps the Minbari were indeed right to revere those who seek.

[kathrid.livejournal.com]

I thought the feeder's 'feeder' looked a bit like another part on the Centauri.

Perhaps this explains some of the centauri's terror of them.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

To a Centauri, the Na'ka'leen is presumably the masculine equivalent of a vagina dentata...

[ruuger]

I wonder what Centauri teen horror movies are like:

"I love you, Aria!"
"I love you too, Kiron, but I thought we agreed not to go beyond one?"
"That... that's not my tentacle!"

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You win at life. :)

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

Man, I’d forgotten there was this big blob of ‘meh’ episodes immediately after “Signs and Portents”. I think I may have been too harsh on “TKO” after watching this…

The main problem I see here is the same as in “TKO” – the plot’s too focused on guest stars. Here, it’s actually worse – at least the Walker Smith plot has a decent sized part for Garibaldi, whereas most of this episode seems to be the Aldus and Jinxo Show. And Jinxo’s a terrible character with one of the worst actors the show’s ever had. I find myself feeling he wouldn’t actually be much worse off if the Na’ka’leen had wiped his brain…

And if we’re being asked to contrast and compare Sinclair and Aldus – well, maybe the two of them should have had a few scenes together? It feels like the entire episode seems unable to tie things into the regular cast, so we end up with a show where the series regulars are maybe the fifth or sixth most important characters, depending on whether you count the Na’ka’leen or not…

I am pleased that the episode doesn’t waste time trying to convince the audience that the Feeder really is Kosh. It’s pretty obvious from the start that that’s not him – it doesn’t sound like him, and the fake helmet doesn’t have the moving parts around the ‘mouth’ like the real one does. I do like the idea of Kosh and the Vorlons as mysterious boogiemen for the average guy on the street; I rather wish more of the episode had focused on that. Deuce doesn’t seem to have made any effort to spread the word about his new ‘ally’ – shouldn’t half the station know that he’s working with a ‘Vorlon’, not just idiot Jinxo?

That’s the other weakness – everyone seems a little too calm and nonchalant about what’s going on. I’m as bleeding heart as they come – but if crime bosses are silencing witnesses and smuggling brain eating monsters on board, it’s not the time to make speeches about how the poor lurkers have nowhere else to go – it’s time to crack down on Down Below and restore some semblance of the rule of law… For that matter, even before they work out what’s going on, aren’t unexplained brain wipes a pretty serious situation? The whole station should be under quarantine, just in case!

Then towards the end we get Aldus somehow talking the Feeder out into the open, and it looks like we’re going to get some sort of “Devil in the Dark” type resolution, with it turning out the Feeder was an innocent just trying to survive or something… only for that to go nowhere.

Minor comments:

- On the Lurker’s Guide page, JMS complains about ‘cycles’ being used here as the unit of time. I have to say, the main problem here is not the term, but that the units appear to be too short. If Deuce had given Jinxo, say, ‘five cycles’ to pay up, it might work – but ‘three hundred cycles’ doesn’t work if it’s meant to be a deadline of a few days at most.

- You know what needs to be made? A special edition remastered version of season one. No changes to special effects or anything; just one alteration: Remove that obnoxious ‘comedy’ music from this episode and “The War Prayer”.

- You know, for mid-nineties CGI, the Na’ka’leen holds up pretty well today.

- I’m not sure if it adds or distracts from my enjoyment of the episode that the judge here reminds me somehow of the old judge from Boston Legal. Adds, I think.

- As selenak said above, the Londo ‘comedy’ scenes just plain don’t work. They’re comedy at the expense of the characters, not because of them. Worst is the last scene, where Garibaldi for no apparent reason decides it’d be a good idea to terrify Londo some more. Oh, those wacky Centauri; terrified by something as harmless as an alien mind-eating predator!

[glenniebun.livejournal.com]

I’m not sure if it adds or distracts from my enjoyment of the episode that the judge here reminds me somehow of the old judge from Boston Legal. Adds, I think.

Simply shocking!

Yes, I think it definitely adds.

[shapinglight]

I really don't have a lot to say about this episode. I didn't much like it the first time I saw it - felt it was written for what, at the time, seemed like the obligatory guest appearance by David Warner. I liked it better this time (the case with most of the episodes), and enjoyed the comedy with Londo and Vir. Best bit for me, though, was, having watched this episode, to then watch an episode of Father Ted and realise that the actor playing the ombuds, was also Father Ted's nemesis, Bishop Brennan.

Having said which, I like the court scene - yet more colouring in of the B5 background.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

I've only seen this episode twice--I watched it when I first got my Season 1 DVDs, and now again. The thing that bothered me the most about this episode when I first watched it still bothered me, in that I have a huge embarrassment squick, so the opening thing with Delenn having Sinclair and Garibaldi show up in full dress with an honor guard for Aldus sends me nearly catatonic. But after that happened, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed the rest of the episode.

I still have trouble with Deuce, in that I cannot separate him from J.F. Sebastian from Blade Runner. It's the voice.

Jinxo didn't bother me as much the second time around, and I was still charmed at his reaction to David Warner whupping up on the dudes with his staff. David Warner, as always, was fantastic.

One story from the script books: apparently the director for this episode was told, right before filming started, that he was going to be let go. Which led to, um. Not very much directing. Which explains why the blocking in the final climactic battle is so AWFUL.

All in all, still not one of the best episodes, but nowhere near as bad as I remembered it being.