"The Summoning" Discussion

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

This is the discussion post for the episode 4X03 "The Summoning." Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Zack makes a discovery in the search for Garibaldi. Delenn's plan to attack the Shadows runs into trouble. Ivanova and Marcus attempt to solicit aid from more First Ones.

Extra reading:
The article for "The Summoning" at The Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Again, I shall try my best to comment on non-Centauri events first and keep the raving to the last.

"Everyone I hold dear is gone": so much for you, Lennier. :) Seriously, I think it's simply a script oversight by JMS rather than Delenn intentionally slighting her devoted aide, but in my heartless moments, I am inappropriately amused, especially since Delenn not only lists Sheridan, Ivanova and Marcus but even Londo and G'Kar in her "missing from the station" account. Speaking of Delenn, it's good to see her active again, and in my head she had a brilliant speech of her hown all worked out to convince everyone when Sheridan arrived. And speaking of Lennier and his less than thrilled face upon that arrival, this is one of those scenes why I don't think events in Objects at Rest are out of character.

The Lyta/Kosh II scene is even more obvious a metaphor for domestic/sexual abuse than the last time. I guess JMS wanted to make sure we're all on board with Sheridan's "let's kill Kosh II" plan the next episode.

I don't ship them, but the Marcus/Ivanova exchanges are cute at this point.

Poor Garibaldi. All in all, I think it was the right choice to make it clear from the start that he's Under The Influence, but I still regret his upcoming arguments about Lorien and the difference in reactions to Sheridan's return versus his own thus get deflated from the start.

Meanwhile, on Centauri Prime, G'Kar is in for more biblical torment (39 lashes), and the director does the highly effective budget saving lighting of a few actors in a dark room again (see: Comes the Inquisitor, and all Grey Council scenes), and this particular version is my particular favourite. It's everyone's facial reactions that make the scene so extraordinary, Cartagia staring, Vir nearly throwing up on Londo's shoulder, Londo and G'Kar looking at each other while the flogging goes on. In terms of emotional importance to the characters, I find it interesting that this is one of the things Londo (or his inner G'Kar) blames himself for because as opposed to his early dealings with Morden, the bombing of Narn or later the matter of G'Kar's eye, this actually isn't a time when Londo speaking up would have made a difference to what happened to G'Kar, imo. And I find it downright fascinating that when Londo's subsconscious restages this scene in The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari, he doesn't simply switch roles with G'Kar, which would have been the obvious thing to do, no, while he takes G'Kar's place G'Kar takes Cartagia's.

The Londo and G'Kar scene in the cell before the flogging is as intense as ever; I must be dull and repeat my "gods of acting" praise from last week for the actors. G'Kar has taken humiliation for the sake of his people before (in his dealings with Sheridan and Delenn in Acts of Sacrifice, for example), but not on the advice of his nearest enemy so far, and yet in this particular situation, I don't think anyone but Londo could have persuaded him...

[queenbookwench.livejournal.com]

Totally agree with you on the Garibaldi stuff; the flashes of "something bad happening" are valuable; I find Garibaldi's arc this season really well-done and painful to watch (so much so that I haven't been able to make myself watch the last episodes of season 4).

But at the same time it bothers me that we're apparently expected to see all of his criticisms of Sheridan as illegitimate, when I thought some of them were pretty legitimate!

It's interesting imagining what this arc would have been like with Sinclair as the captain. Even more painful, because it's practically canon that Jeffrey Sinclair is one of the great loves of Garibaldi's life (along with Lise Hampton and alcohol), but at the same time I think that other characters would have been much more quick to realize that something was going. Sheridan and Garibaldi never had that same level of trust and I think that's what gives this arc a lot of it's plausibility.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, I can never make up my mind whether Sinclair as the captain would have made the arc better or worse. Face of the Enemy is a good episode anyway, but I think it would be even better (read: more painful) if it had been Sinclair, because I think the actual bar scene where Sheridan gets captured went for a "betrayal by best friend" resonance which didn't fit with Garibaldi's and Sheridan's relationship, which was friendly and respectful at its best but not as close as Sheridan's with Ivanova, and definitely nowhere as close as Garibaldi's with Sinclair. Otoh, as you say, if it had been Sinclair, it's unabelievable that not only Sinclair himself but the rest of the gang wouldn't have picked up on the fact something was seriously wrong with Garibaldi while Garibaldi was still at the station. BTW, Sinclair is one of the great loves of Garibaldi's life (along with Lise Hampton and alcohol) sums it up beautifully. :) Whereas Garibaldi falling out with Sheridan the way he did could have happened without the extra push provided by Psi Corps and was still in character.

But at the same time it bothers me that we're apparently expected to see all of his criticisms of Sheridan as illegitimate, when I thought some of them were pretty legitimate!

Yes, that's it exactly. It wouldn't matter if there was another "good guy" character voicing similar objections, but there isn't, and at the same time we get the occasional episode like the s4 finale or "A view from the gallery" which include blatant bits of authorial hero-worshipping of Sheridan and declaring all criticism the behaviour of ungrateful meanies. Whereas Sheridan works best for me as a character when either the narrative intentionally allows him to be wrong (as in In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum, which was the episode that won me around for Sheridan), or shows his dorkier side along with his heroic qualities (such as the orange thing, or his decision to go on strike rather than pay extra rent for his quarters).

...I think what I wish is that s4 Sheridan would have had a Neroon of his own. Because Neroon is that character for Delenn for most of his appearances (not at the end, obviously), someone who might be biased against her but who is not evil or mind-controlled, and whose criticism can have a point.

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

This episode was a lot of things but G'kar and Londo stole it away coompletely. How far they have come from the comic relief in the first season to this: arch enemies making a deal that will help their people but perhaps destroy them both, a deal that seals their fates. I loved it when Londo stood and mouthed "Scream" at G'Kar while he was being beaten.

Susan and Marcus were cute. WAs she really such and idiot that she didn't see?

Garibaldi... I hate this whole story line and always have. It actually ruined the character for me.

Would Delenn have persuaded the non-aligned worlds to come back? Maybe. I thought Sheridan's entrance a bit strange and his replies about who Lorien was a bit ... off. Yet despite it all, I do love hero Sheridan as long as we get a mix of human Sheridan too.

I think all those looks that Lennier gives through Delenn and Sheridan's courtship and marriage were meant to convince us that what he does in the end is really not OOC. But I'm not so sure.

The Vorlons are showing their true colors now and scary colors they are.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think Ivanova at this point of the show is aware that Marcus has a crush on her, though I don't think she's ready to consider it more than that, plus she doesn't want a new romance yet, so she's keeping it on a friends level. Which also includes pretending he's not talking about her when he says things like "I want it to be special" etc.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

Man, I always forget this episode has so much important stuff in it – possibly because it’s got such a bland title. I mean, alright, they can’t all be “Falling Towards Apotheosis”, but even the first season tended to do better with titles than this…

Anyway. Garibaldi and Sheridan – well, gotta agree with everyone else, I think it is a weakness of this arc that the show doesn’t realise Garibaldi’s concerns are actually justified. Captain returns from the dead with a weird old guy who won’t leave his side and won’t explain himself? Yeah, that kinda calls for more of an explanation than Sheridan gives. At the very least, someone should remember “Nobody returns from Z’ha’dum” isn’t entirely true – Nobody returns without being best buddies with the Shadows, maybe.

(And personally, I find it profoundly creepy the way Sheridan glances back at Lorien for support before launching into his big speech. Incidently, talking of the speech – it’s a bit overdramatic for my tastes, but I do like for once the League ambassadors are, while wrong, not presented as buffoons.)

I do think this arc needed Sheridan rather than Sinclair – Sinclair would have given the eventual betrayal more of a gut-punch, but would have removed what little subtlety existed about Garibaldi’s condition. And with Sheridan, there’s the little poignancy watching “Z’ha’dum” and realising that’s the first and last time the two of them will be show unconditionally trusting each other…

Unrelated, but – Lorien’s ship, the bird-thing? Is that actually a manifestation of him or something? Because that’s kinda weird, Sheridan flying back from Z’ha’dum inside Lorien – but if it’s a real ship, well, a, where’d Lorien get it, and b, is it just sitting in B5’s docking bay for the rest of the show’s run?

Obviously, as we’re building to the massive CGI resolution of the Shadow War, with teasing shots of thousands of Vorlon warships and superweapons… the most memorable scene is the one with a few actors in a dark room. Utterly painful to watch. If I were to nitpick, the only thing I’d say is that I feel it might be slightly more effective without the music. But that is nitpicking – one of the highlights of the show.

Ivanova/Marcus – not my favourite pairing, I’m afraid to say. Nothing against their scenes, they’re fun, they’re entertaining – but as it seems obvious Marcus was never going to ever openly say anything to Ivanova, well, I can’t maintain any interest in the relationship.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

At the very least, someone should remember “Nobody returns from Z’ha’dum” isn’t entirely true – Nobody returns without being best buddies with the Shadows, maybe.

I think I'll add something to my fanon, to wit, Franklin checking Sheridan for implants and implant scars, and Lyta scanning him after he volunteers for that to prove he's neither been lobotomized a la Anna nor won over a la Morden. Because that really should have been a possibility in people's minds.

Re: Lorien's ship: I've always assumed it's a part of himself he's able to manifest and reintegrate at will, and that it comes along to the big showdown and beyond the Rim.

[beatrice_otter]

I never noticed before, but when Delenn is trying to persuade Lyta to talk to the Vorlons, she grabs her hand. PsiCorps teeps wear gloves because their hands are more sensitive. How much did whatever Lyta could sense from that touch influence her willingness to push?

Speaking of Lyta pushing, that's a very telling exchange she has with the new Kosh: "Dammit, I have earned some respect!" (Which she has) "From whom?" (and she can't answer.) She's earned it from everyone, and yet they ignore her unless they need her.

Londo and Vir seem to be discussing their conspiracy in very public places.

Delenn doesn't normally make huge tactical errors like she does in that rally--standing down in the middle of the crowd where most of them probably can't see or hear her while her opponents are high above her. I like their actual greeting, but I hate the fact that Sheridan has to swoop in and rescue her alliance.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Speaking of Lyta pushing, that's a very telling exchange she has with the new Kosh: "Dammit, I have earned some respect!" (Which she has) "From whom?" (and she can't answer.) She's earned it from everyone, and yet they ignore her unless they need her.

Quite true (except for Zach, he of the pizza delivery, bless). I've often wondered how much the treatment of Lyta was due to her position with the Vorlons, and how much to her being a telepath. Because much as everyone distrusted Psi Corps, we saw Talia with various members of the command staff on non-working occasions (other than Susan, I mean); for example, Sinclair took her out to dinner in "Born to the Purple". She wasn't everyone's best friend, but she was clearly a liked and accepted part of the station. Yet with Lyta, everyone keeps a distance from the get-go; is it being burned by Divided Loyalties events or distrust because nobody knows how to categorize her connection to the Vorlons?

Londo and Vir clearly go by the model: talk in public, then nobody will assume you're discussing anything important. *g*

Swooping in!Sheridan: what you said.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

I hate the fact that Sheridan has to swoop in and rescue her alliance.

agreed, I dislike the whole manner of his return, and the speech.
I would have preferred Delenn to be up there, at lest trying to salvage her plan on equal terms with the protesters, and Sheridan as a witnes or at best support.