"Meditations on the Abyss" discussion

[ruuger]

Sorry for the missed week. Apparently my mind is like a sieve.

This is the discussion post for the episode 5x14, "Meditations on the Abyss". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Delenn sends Lennier to investigate the attacks on Alliance ships.

Extra reading:
The article for "Meditations on the Abyss" at The Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

deborah_judge once said if you put off the sound of this episode during the Delenn and Lennier scene, then ask a new watcher who of these is in unrequited love with whom, they'd say Delenn with Lennier. While I wouldn't go that far, I do notice that since committing herself to Sheridan for good, Delenn has increased the physical affection with Lennier; all that cheek stroking isn't something she did in earlier seasons. (I still wonder at times whether JMS hadn't planned on a complete Arthur-Guinevere-Lancelot triangle, since in the Arthurian demoninations of the relevant s3 episode Delenn is Lancelot. Who thinks he's the purest but really falls for love, and betrays the Rangers, err, the Round Table.) Given that "The Very Long Night of Londo Mollari" makes it clear she's aware of his feelings for her, it's not a kind thing to do.

Still Delenn-related: I love her facing off the jerk in the bar, but as with Marcus' sudden penchant for meeting Delenn and Lennier in bars just to make it complicated, I have to ask: really? Delenn couldn't have met Lennier anywhere else on the station? Ah well. It's an entertaining scene.

Poor Londo has possibly his last relaxed day in the universe and doesn't know it. His response to discovering his quarters were bugged by the Drazi is classic Londo, and I love him to bits. Also his watching Vir with the eyes of a proud father is heartbreaking because soon, he won't have that chance again. Meanwhile, G'Kar discovers more and more of the downside of being a religious icon; people love the cryptic, they love less a JMS variation of Plato's shadow-and-light simile. Franklin's interest is neat continuity of his Foundationist background.

Lastly: "what if Sheridan, Delenn & Co. had confided in Londo"? is one of the unanswerable ones. Because you understand why they don't, given Centauri policies (and Londo's own policies) until rather recently. And yet, if they had made that leap of faith - which would have been less of one than G'Kar trusting Londo's word in s4...

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

Re: confiding in Londo, it was not only a question of trust.
If Londo had known about it, he'd have acted on that knowledge, and he would have been dead soon after.
I am fairly sure (it's a week ago alreday, and I'm getting old. ..) that someone pointed this out at the end.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

With our knowledge: chances are Londo would be dead, yes (or rather the Drakh, since they wanted their revenge on specifically him, would have tried to get the keeper on him sooner). With Sheridan's, Delenn's etc. knowledge? Londo actually is rather good at keeping dangerous secrets. I'm not sure how much they know about how things went down on Centauri Prime and Narn, but G'Kar mentions his deal with Londo when greeting Garibaldi in "Epiphanies" so I'm assuming the broad outline is common knowledge on the Garibaldi-Delenn-Sheridan-formerly-Ivanova level at least. Meaning: yes, Londo has a temper, but he's also familiar with keeping a poker face when dealing with a crazy despot. (Oh, and then there's the relationship with Morden which wasn't exactly super secret after Londo was one of the people who asked for his release in "Shadow of Z'ha'dum", granted, but that was still a good while after it happened. And the late Refa would also be able to testify to Londo's ability of keeping lethal secrets. Ahem.)

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

This is one of my favourit S5 episodes, I very much like the development of Lennier, who has been relatively constant (though quietly growing) for the rest of the series. It is interesting how Lennier lectures Findel about the right motivations for becoming a ranger. His own do not exactly fall into that category. Quite apart from the role played by feelings for Delenn, he avowedly follows his fallen friend Marcus, much as Findel forllows his relatives - and Marcus had followed his. There is a pattern here, and it is bound to be intentional.
...is there such a thing as the right reason?

I like the White Star Maria - I had not really noticed before the oddity of all these ships without names...
More frivolously, I also remember having a fancying Captain Montoya a teensy bit first time round, and I still think he's someone I'd like to serve under. I love the final lesson about private channels...

Londo and Vir - well, perfect! Not only Londo's reaction ("*now* you are ready to be ambassador"), but also Zack's!
I *love* Vir :-)

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

I too wondered why Delenn had to meet Lennier is some bar in down-below. It's not like they weren't noticed! Not like Marcus wasn't noticed when he did it too... but maybe even being noticed there doesn't make much of an impression.

I always thought they way Delenn was always touching Lennier's face after she knew how he felt was a bit like rubbing his nose in the fact that she would never be his. Perhaps she meant it to console him but it certainly never came across that way.

Vir was lovely in his rage, wasn't he? He's come a long way from where we met him in Season 1 and he will certainly someday grow to be the emperor that Londo meant to be.

Seeing Londo come to an end to his time on Babylon 5 is sad. I always felt the series was really about Londo and G'kar and their trials and tribulations more than anything else anyway.