"Survivors" discussion [spoilers]

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

This is the discussion post for the episode 1X11, "Survivors". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Extra reading:

The article for "Survivors" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

My problem with this the first time around was that I thought "oh, please, he's a regular, of course he'll clear his name and won't lose his job". Ahem. Little did I know. *eyes season 4 and 5, and Garibaldi's storyarc in same* But anyway, that made me feel a bit impatient with the episode initially.

Rewatching, I still don't think it's one of the first season's best, but it is a good character episode for Garibaldi, the first one he gets, and very important continuity wise as it introduces us to his alcoholism, which has been hinted at but not spelled out before. I like that the show actually did let him fall of the wagon instead of just having people wrongfully suspecting he did (in addition to all the other wrongful suspicions); it's interesting to compare and contrast this to what happens in s5. Here, Garibaldi is able to pull himself together again (this one fall is not the start of a new alcoholic binge), in the future, he won't be, not without massive intervention and help. I think the key difference aren't friends - he has them in both scenarios - but that in Survivors, he finds something definite to do, something he's good at - clear up the mystery, clear his name. Whereas what triggers his fall in s5 is that he feels helpless, that he can't fight against a prohibition inserted in his mind.

Lianna is a character with a not-stellar actress but whom I wish they had brought back anyway, maybe as part of the Earth civil war storyline, because the "uncle" type of relationship added something to Garibaldi's character.

I loved the scenes with G'Kar and Londo respectively, predictably enough.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

Personally, I find it fascinating that Zicree, in the intro to the script in the script book, worked really hard to do a realistic portrayal of alcoholism in the original script only to watch it get dumbed down for production. I found Garibaldi's alcoholism dealt with much more sensitivity/realism in S5. It's a difficult subject to deal with in fiction, and I think later B5 did pretty well with it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, to be fair, we're talking about one single episode versus an entire arc here. But yes, what happens later strikes one as more realistic.

It also says something about the way tv has changed, not least thanks to B5, that when I watched this the first time I didn't expect Garibaldi's alcoholism to be touched on again, whereas now when someone gets introduced as an alcoholic, no matter whether one who drinks or one who is abstinent, I expect it to be followed up upon.

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

It's really interesting--I watch people who are watching B5 for the first time nowadays, who expect things introduced in one episode in S1 to be HUGE later in the program, when later in the season there are these huge multi-episode arcs which never touch on the S1 stuff again. But current television does so much with the arc thing that we forget how pre-90s TV did things. Babylon 5 really was on the forefront of these things, but it did take more than a season for it to catch on.

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

I think B5 is still the only show that deals with a stroy arc well. JMS had the story in mind all along whereas now, as with Battlestar Galactica, they had NO plan and made it all up as it went along. The story arc there was really not one at all but writers scrambling to figure out how to end the thing.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

with Battlestar Galactica, they had NO plan

... and the ending suffered for it :-(

I also like the way B5 (still) blends episodic and arc elements., so that there are standalone episodes, apparent standalaones that do turn out to be come relevant later, and full-blown arc ep that make no sense to out of context.
And that there is relevant stuff in all of them.

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

I had never thought about it that way. I remember when I used to watch the X-files. There were standalone x-files and then there were arc stories... B5 did manage to do both at the same time.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

I've only noticed during the rewatch.

I think there is more to compare it with now than ther was at the time, and there is some virtue in coming back to it after some time.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

I always wondered if Lianna was on EarthForce One when it exploded at the end of the season.

The very sad and scary parallel in the choices-consequences-responsibilities that Londo and Garibaldi face at the beginning and end of the B5 story, and the echo of the mantra of 'new beginnings, even for people like us' impressed me this time.

The foretelling of the end of the season, and the death of Santiago, and Garibaldi's failed attempt to prevent it, was chilling with foreknowledge.

Jerry Doyle hadn't impressed me with his acting before this episode, but he made a pretty convincing drunk.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

I always wondered if Lianna was on EarthForce One when it exploded at the end of the season.

Interesting idea.
But her job seems to be to check/sort things ahead of the arrival of the presidential convoy, probably not.
Which makes it more the pity that the character didn't come back.

he made a pretty convincing drunk

...as opposed to his stunt doube, who did a perfect breakfall when the cheracter stumbles outside the bar.
I *wish* directors could resist showing that kind of thing!
:-)

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

One of those rather weak episodes that isn’t laughably bad like Infection or Grey 17 Is Missing, but just doesn’t have much merit to it either. It’s kind of meh all round.

I feel there’s two main problems; one is that Garibaldi’s alcoholism is dealt with much better in later episodes. That’s not a fault with this one, but it does mean it comes across even weaker in hindsight.

The other fault is that the plot doesn’t seem to hang together too well. The frame job against Garibaldi is incredibly unsubtle, and it’s fairly obvious by process of elimination who has to be behind it. Of course, if Home Guard have an agent as high up as Cutter, one wonders why they were bothering to plant the first bomb in the fighter bay themselves in the first place – unless the whole idea was to screw up that bomb so Garibaldi would be framed, which seems a little too complicated for them to be able to handle... Can’t they just shoot the president?

The other thing that kind of annoys me is that I feel the episode rather wastes the idea of the president visiting. A scene or two of the ambassadors either talking to or planning to speak to the president would be far more interesting than all the fuss being made about the new Starfuries the station gets... Warren Keffer was presumably piloting one of the new Starfuries, which in hindsight actually makes their arrival seem even *less* important.

- I was going to mock Garibaldi’s horrible shirt, but just before I started typing, Londo mocked it for me.

- A ‘wing’ in Babylon 5 terms apparently consists of a mere six starfuries. I know the definition of wing differs from country to country – has there every been any airforce that used that term for such a small number of craft?

- I hadn’t noticed before; n’grath doesn’t have claws, just a single point on each arm. He’d have to use both arms if he wanted to actually grasp something. Maybe his people mainly grasp things with their mouths or something... or they’re telekinetics!

- Seriously, why are there secret access tunnels between the alien sector and regular levels? The alien sector isn’t going to work well unless every entrance is an airlock...

- It’s nice of Home Guard to use a bomb that only goes off when the fighters are actually launched, not just set to a timer.

[marphilly.livejournal.com]

It's a dull episode, although it serves it's purpose in developing Garibaldi's character and background.

[lazulidragon.livejournal.com]

Watching this with the memory of S5 relatively clear in my mind is kind of cringe-worthy. Garibaldi picks himself back up now, but he won't later, and it hurts.

I love seeing this G'Kar, with all his scheming and plotting to get Narn ahead.

Always happy to see n'grath, too, though I'm not entirely sure why I like him so much. He's a nice constant for all of S1.

Never really noticed this before, but Lianna's Symbolically Loose Hair at the end of the episode really jumped out at me. I suppose she was meant to look more human, once she's let go of her grudge? In any case, it's awfully messy-looking. Oh, well.

[shapinglight]

I've got behind with commenting, which I regret, and of course now can't remember that much about this episode. Lianna's Grudgefree Loose Hair at the end rather jumped out at me too. It's a very silly outward manifestation of her softened inner feelings.

Nice to get some backstory on Garibaldi, but apart from the alcoholism, his history with Lianna doesn't have much relevance later.