b5_revisited

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags

ruuger posting in

This is the discussion post for the episodes 1X20, "Babylon Squared". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:

Babylon 4 reappears.

Extra reading:

The article for "Babylon Squared" at Lurker's Guide.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak.livejournal.com

Back when news got out that Sinclair would be replaced as lead by a new character in the s1 hiatus, my first thought was "damm, now we'll never find out what Babylon Squared was all about!" It was definitely one of the s1 seasons that most impressed me and had me hooked. Rewatching it is impossible without keeping War without End in mind, so I won't even try. So, observations:

1) The opening sequence with Sinclair and Garibaldi pranking Ivanova and later the fasten/zip conversation between Garibaldi and Sinclair reminded me again of one of the key differences in senior command staff dynamics from the first season compared to the later ones. In s1, Ivanova is very much the junior member, both in the sense that it's noticable she's younger than Sinclair and Garibaldi (who tend to treat her like a younger sister they're very fond of), and in the sense that Garibaldi and Sinclair are closer friends than either Sinclair and Ivanova, or Garibaldi and Ivanova. Meanwhile, Sheridan and Ivanova knew each other pre-B5, so from s2 onwards, Ivanova is the one closer to the captain, and Garibaldi is the one a bit on the outside at first. And while Garibaldi and Sheridan do become friends, they never share the easy intimacy Garibaldi and Sinclair do, which is why the big "Judas" comparisons later in s4 don't have the wished for emotional resonance for me.

2) War without End does a great job of retconning and papering over the problem the change of lead leaves, but at two points it's really noticable: Sinclair and "the One" in the suit touching, since if this is Delenn (who has already swapped with Sheridan) it makes no sense, and Babylon Squared obviously is going for a "the same person from different time periods" effect here; and Sinclair's flash forward to Garibaldi fighting off unnamed invaders, which is something that never happens. (Yes, you can declare it never happened because Sinclair prevented Garibaldi from returning to B4 in War without End, but every other flash forward on that station does happen. So it glares.) There is also the blooper of Delenn's sleeve at the end scene not matching what she's wearing in War without End, but that's just a production screw-up. *g*

3) Otoh, what was clearly already planned is Delenn's transformation (hence us not seeing her face when older Sinclair takes off his helmet, and she talks to him); one of the great things about Babylon Squared is that when you first watch it you think the Delenn subplot is not connected to the Babylon 4 main plot, when in fact it is.

4) The Minbari are at their most (Tolkien) Elves in Space here, with JMS making it really evident where he got his inspiration from. It occurs to me that this is already where Delenn refuses to diminish and go into the West, and chooses a mortal life, to quote Galadriel and Arwen. More seriously, Delenn not accepting the leadership position within the Grey Council but choosing to remain on B5 and fulfill that prophecy herself is typical for her mixture of altruism and ego. Though you can argue that she might also have in mind what happened the last time she was in a sort of leading position within the Grey Council. (To wit, a genocidal war.)

5) "Either way, is bad for Zathras." Tim Choate cracks me up.

6) "You've met this Sinclair character twice." This assertion that Sinclair and Garibaldi didn't really know each other very well - only from two meetings - pre B5 is something that regularly gets chucked out in fanon, and I must say it also goes against the impression given in canon in other episodes, where it's "old friend" all the way.

From:

vjs2259.livejournal.com

It's just a step to the right...

1) Franklin also knows Sheridan from before, and becomes more part of the gang in S2. And I agree about Garibaldi; he never becomes tight with Sheridan and it's more sad than surprising at the end.
2)Both my husband and I initially thought the 'end of B5' flash was something that happened back on Mars, oddly enough. And so missed the connection with the message at the beginning of WWE.
That sleeve bugs the hell out of me. It's not even like something she ever wears!
3)I had even forgotten the Minbari subplot, much less how it tied in. This re-watching is fun.
4) I thought it was the Vorlons who let Dukhat, and then Delenn, know of the importance of the humans. Here it is Valen. Which begs the question of why kill them all if you know they're that important, or did this come up later? *is confused*
5) Zathras is wonderful. And the first Ranger. 'We live for the one...'
6) As to the two meetings and 'old friend'; he's known Sinclair two years plus two times, and Delenn's known him two years plus (at least) one time, and both use the 'old friend' construct. Maybe two years on B5 is like dog years; it feels like much longer. I think the 'only met him twice' makes Garibaldi seem more impulsive and desperate for approval/validation, which feels right. Plus of course, I was under the misapprehension he and Sinclair had been under fire on Mars and so their 'meeting' was more memorable.

From:

selenak.livejournal.com

I thought it was the Vorlons who let Dukhat, and then Delenn, know of the importance of the humans. Here it is Valen. Which begs the question of why kill them all if you know they're that important, or did this come up later? *is confused*

*handwaves* Valen didn't name the humans by name but talked about them in general terms; it was the Vorlons who told Dukhat, then Delenn, that the people Valen had been talking about were the humans. Damm that Sinclair for being so cryptic!

I think the 'only met him twice' makes Garibaldi seem more impulsive and desperate for approval/validation, which feels right.

Hm, yes, and presumably Sinclair was the first one to believe in him after the disaster with Frank What's his name dying. Of course this now makes me curious about Sinclair's pov on this as well - if he only met Garibaldi twice, then the level of trust he has in him is really remarkable. And how does this square with Garibaldi knowing all about Catherine Sakai and her history with Sinclair when she first shows up early in s1?

Though I think you're right that two years on B5 are great for bonding and feel like dog years.*g*

From:

vjs2259.livejournal.com

*hand waves back* Perhaps it was all hidden away in those musty dusty scrolls of Valen that they are always finding things in (like the video of Babylon 4 being stolen, and the evidence that Delenn is a child o'Valen...)

Maybe The Vorlons were deliberately cryptic and then got busy and forgot to intervene in the Earth-Minbari War until, whoops, they were almost out of humans. Then the Naranek brothers told D&D, which netted them Sinclair for testing. After the war, the Council had scores of Temple librarians go thru the scrolls to find Valen's hints at important ape descendants who would show up eventually. To shore up their story...this isn't working, is it? Sigh.

As for Catherine, Sinclair and Garibaldi meet once a week at Earhart's to hang out, and guys really, really do discuss these things. The trust thing is just Sinclair. He's like that with people; jumping to conclusions, going on gut instinct (I'm making all this up, you do realize that?) Although I think he does have good instincts actually. Two years is a long time, on an intense project like that. You could get pretty close.