"Grey 17 Is Missing" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 3X19 "Grey 17 Is Missing". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Delenn becomes the leader of the Rangers despite Neroon's objections. Meanwhile Garibaldi investigates a missing sublevel and encounters Freddie Krueger and a guy in a rubber suit.

Extra reading:
The article for "Grey 17 Is Missing" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

Let me heap scorn upon myself by saying that I adore Grey 17. Okay, the Garibaldi plot is the weak link, but Neroon! Fighting to the death! Honor! Warriors acknowledging each other! There is no bad at all in that stuff. NONE.

And really, Neroon saying that Delenn is kind of sketchy was AWESOME. He was totally right to be concerned about her move for power.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I need to note that this is the only episode in which Marcus makes a contribution to a universe-level plot, and it (convincing Neroon that Delenn deserves to lead the Rangers) is something no other character could have done so plausibly. Which is why I'm not convinced by the occasional Stu accusations the character attracts.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

I join in the ritual pouring of ashes upon myself! Grey 17 has moments, and whole scenes, of Greatness!

To add to the Marcus & Neroon scenes, there are the Marcus & Lennier scenes, and the Delenn & Lennier scenes, and *cough* the John & Delenn scenes! I'm even fond of the Sheridan & Garibaldi scene at the end...I wanted that convo to go on until Sheridan exploded in glorious frustration.

I, naturally, disagree completely with Neroon's assessment of Delenn's motivation. Just because the Warriors were completely and totally PWNED by Delenn circumventing their own power grab...*chortle* He's SO jealous. And really? Neroon should stick to black, it's his color. That swirly brown robe thingie is not his style.

They declared her Entil'zha there at the end of the ceremony, didn't they? Did we ever get a definitive explanation of the Ranger One/Anla'Shok Na/Entil'zha distinction? I mean, I came up with my own story cause that's what I do, but ??? Instruct me, Internets!

I'm even sneakily fond of the Garibaldi plot. The ravings about the Minbari 'religion' are rather funny and even revealing in their own way (the real root of Minbari War Syndrome??). My 8-year-old at the time liked the Zarg, the bullet gambit, and especially the puppet that shot darts from its eyes. This might well be a case of JMS writing for another audience. :) It's not all about us, you know.

Jeremiah's counterpart I always felt was Marcus, the religious zealot that Neroon didn't seem to see. Both of them searching for the perfect death, and seeking understanding through death; even if only one is seriously looking. 'Don't confront him, Marcus' says Lennier the subtle, and Marcus charges in there with a death-challenge like a horde of Narns bent on revenge (ala Severed Dreams). I really should re-write this with Lennier dealing with Neroon in some underhanded and magnificently passive-aggressive way. Hmm.

I quite love the bit with Marcus & Lennier (Marcus' quarters are like Sinclair's; he is also just passing through this life) when Marcus is joshing with him, then goes deadly serious when he hears the threat. His face just changes, in an instant.
I really, really want to know what sent Neroon to Babylon 5 to stop the ceremony. His own idea? Payback for Branmer? Shakiri revving up for civil war? Warrior arrogance (We 'let' you have them? That is, the Rangers and the White Stars? Hah!) Delenn and Neroon: a clash of arrogances that wasn't explored anywhere near enough!

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

Neroon envious of Delenn's power? NOT. Neroon is rightly concerned with a religious figure grabbing power based on a prophecy.

I really should re-write this with Lennier dealing with Neroon in some underhanded and magnificently passive-aggressive way. Hmm.

Yes, you should.

Delenn and Neroon: a clash of arrogances that wasn't explored anywhere near enough!

Indeed.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

Hah! Neroon was part of the Warrior caste power grab, both with Branmer and the Council, and while he might have actually been worried about the prophecy thing cause I can see that? Still Jealous.

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

For some reason, I've never been fond of this episode but I enjoyed seeing it this time. Marcus was wonderful fighting Neroon and still never losing his sense of the absurd. Leenier is rather devious in this one, but passive agressive sneakniness seems to be one of his strong suits to me.

The monster in Grey 17 was actually rather silly but Michael's separation from the others is already beginning... it began for me when he was left behind when Sinclair and the others went back to B4 and it does not end until it comes ful circle.

Neroon. He is a character I love to hate. And hate and hate.

[phoenix-silaqui.livejournal.com]

I also had to rethink my old opinion of this episode this time around.

I think it stems from the overwhelming ridiculousness of the Garibaldi plot, that I can't reconcile the Delenn/Neroon/Marcus stuff as being in the same episode. Although, I have always a little bit more of a soft spot for this one than most fans because it contains one of my favorite lines. "Thin air, why is it always thin air... I'm sorry sir, that's not my department." That bit has always cracked me up.

The tie back to this one later on when Garibaldi is building the motorcycle is kinda cool as well.

[ufgator1977.livejournal.com]

I still don't quite understand the point of the whole Garibaldi storyline here unless it was just to give Englund his guest appearance.

I do enjoy watching John Vickery, however, and I love the Neroon character. His scenes with Marcus are wonderful. Lennier is such a master manipulator. The guy missed his calling; he should have been a politician. Or maybe he is actually.

Delenn sharing part of her past with John is one of those nice little things that couples go through as they get to know each other. You get some real insight into Delenn watching that scene.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

*pauses to admire Lennier once again*

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

I really think this episode wouldn’t have a bad reputation at all if the title had come from the Neroon plot instead. And, really, the Garibaldi plot’s not that bad –feels a little first season-ish, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing; it’s nice to get a story now and then that focuses the station itself as a big place with lots of weird little secrets rather than being entirely concerned with galactic events.

It is hard not to sympathise with Neroon – Delenn may claim to have no desire to rule, but she’s not someone who ever really steps away from power. One wonders what Neroon would have made of the Interstellar Alliance, and specifically, the rise of the Rangers from an anti-Shadow intelligence force to a galactic army seemingly above the law – but still answering personally to Delenn.

One thing that struck me is how little Delenn seems to have considered the real implications of breaking the Council. I’m reminded of Londo in “Knives” – they both have an almost painful naivety about the unintended consequences of their efforts to put their people back on the ‘right’ path and are seemingly oblivious to the tensions they’ve exposed at home.

So, sure, it’s a desperate situation, but it seems kinda mean to start hassling the underground railroad teeps to sign on to the war effort, you know? I mean, these are people whose lives depend on remaining hidden, and aren’t really in a position to say “No, bugger off” if the Rangers start tracking them down. Now, granted, it is actually pretty in-character for Sheridan to see them purely as a useful resource, but it is a little surprising that Franklin was so quick to turn over the records.

On that note, meant to mention this last week, but I think another thing that adds to the general feel of pointlessness “Walkabout” had is that Franklin doesn’t start actually suffering from stim withdrawal until now.

[kathrid.livejournal.com]

Again with the 'this episode is nowhere as bad as people make out' sentiment. The Neroon plot is excellent, and for the first time Neroon becomes more than the 2D angry warrior caste. For the first time you can be sure that his actions stem from what he claims, not from greed for power.

I quite like the Jeremiah plot as well. It's an interesting idea, and is fairly well carried through until late on in the episode when it quickly goes downhill until the cringe-worthy lack of science in the climax. Cringed at the time, still do now. Gah! It's a shame, because it really ruins what is otherwise a pretty good episode.