"Darkness Ascending" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 5x15, "Darkness Ascending". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Lennier discovers evidence about Centauri involvement on the attacks on Alliance ships. Lyta works on trying to find a safe haven for the rogue telepaths.

Extra reading:
The article for "Darkness Ascending" at The Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And thus the show finally remembers that the Narn are willing to pay for telepaths. The first time I watched I wondered whether that plot point was dropped forever, but no, it's not, which makes me happy, not least because I enjoy the scenes between G'Kar and Lyta. Showing both the way they changed and what has remained constant (and I do love that G'Kar still has an eye for the ladies).

Another thing I love: Delenn and her Machiavellian debating skills. Seriously, Sheridan should just give up arguing with her, she outmanoeuvres him every time. As I recall on the audio commentary JMS says that Delenn = Jesuit, and I agree.

The rest of the episode pretty much breaks my heart, and I know it will only get worse. Oh, Londo. The scene between him and Delenn is one of my all time favourites and I think a fine case for Mira Furlan's acting skills, as she goes from relief on Lennier's account to awareness that not only is the Alliance in danger because a founding member seemingly has been exposed preying on the others, but also this is the last time in all likelihood that she'll see Londo as a friend and that he's doomed. There is both affection and an element of a Judas kiss in that hug, and I love it to bits.

Theoretical question: what do Sheridan & Co. think is the motive of the Centauri for playing secret pirates? Just because they can?

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

So Lyse doesn't want an alcoholic to drinnk then orders wine at dinner? I found that a bit rude. The whole thing doesn't fly for me.

Lenneir somehow seems sinsiter all the time since I know what happens to him. He's also rather studid sometimes since he left Delenn's service. He acts like a lovesick puppy with all his melodrama.

The real meat is Londo... poor doomed Londo. For all his faults and he has many, Londo is still one of the good guys on some level. Whatever evil he did, he did with the best of intentions. He did it for Centauri Prime being the main one.

selenak asks what would be the motive for the attacks. I think that Sheridan and the others think the Centauri are just mean enough to do it for fun. I'm not sure they actually realize just how much the Centauri were manipulated by the Shadows in what they did before.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

Since I am spectacularly incapable at thinking without a cue, here are some reactions to previous posts:

Re alexcat:

[Lennier] acts like a lovesick puppy with all his melodrama.

I think that's essentially what he is. He has relied on others probably all his life: I seem to remember that it is implied somewhere that he came into Delenn's service from a sheltered life in temple. Then for all his previous stable existence in the series, he has been dependent on Delenn, both physically as her employee and emotionally. Now he is expected to stand on his own two legs for the first time. I think it is interesting to see what he does, and fails to do, with his new independence.

So Lyse doesn't want an alcoholic to drinnk then orders wine at dinner?

I think she does it deliberately...
But then, I dislike her so much, I *would* think that...

and with reference to selenak's mail:

As I recall on the audio commentary JMS says that Delenn = Jesuit

Also interesting of course, since she was originally going to be set up with Sinclair, who went to Jesuit school...

Londo

...and yes, I also love the scenes with Londo, especially Delenn's hug - and the fact that Londo has no idea why.
Actually, in a way it seems to be less that of Judas kiss than the opposite. When Judas betrays Jesus, they both know what he is doing, but the others either do not, or (in that case of the soldiers) are informed by the kiss. In this case, Londo is pretty much the only one who does not know.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Lise and drinking wine in front of an alcoholic: considering that she didn't believe Garibaldi (with reason) about being able to handle his renewed alcohol consummation, I assumed she did it deliberately, too, both to test and provoke him into admitting he needed help. Which didn't work, but nobody ever accused Lise of being a great planner.

...and yes, I also love the scenes with Londo, especially Delenn's hug - and the fact that Londo has no idea why.
Actually, in a way it seems to be less that of Judas kiss than the opposite. When Judas betrays Jesus, they both know what he is doing, but the others either do not, or (in that case of the soldiers) are informed by the kiss. In this case, Londo is pretty much the only one who does not know.

Oh, it definitely doesn't work as as a parallel - which is why I said "an element of", but I couldn't think of a mythological, historical or religious image that fits closer. It's a gesture that expresses fondness - and is sincerely meant that way - but at the same time Delenn is also aware she's washing her hands (ha! another not really fitting image) - of Londo, that tomorrow he won't be an ally anymore but an enemy.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

Oh, it definitely doesn't work as as a parallel - which is why I said "an element of", but I couldn't think of a mythological, historical or religious image that fits closer.

Yes, I understand that - and in its inverted way it actually seems to fit quite well. It was certainly an interesting point to consider.

The really tragic thing (and the whole Londo story is good old-fashioned Aristotelian tragedy) is that Londo will not as a person stop being Delenn's friend, but only as a representative (or by now rather, a part) of his government confronting an alliance politician. It is the incompatibility between these that somehow makes the situation so hard to bear.

(Agreed about Lise)