"The Geometry of Shadows" Discussion

[aris-tgd.livejournal.com]

This is the discussion post for the episodes 2X03, "The Geometry of Shadows". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Babylon 5 is visited by the Techno-Mages, a mysterious group of people with strange powers and unknown ambitions. Ivanova is given a promotion and has to deal with a thorny diplomatic problem.

Extra reading:

The article for "The Geometry of Shadows" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You know, as I think I mentioned when we discussed Midnight at the Firing Line and the Sinclair-G'Kar scene there: upon rewatching, it really strikes me that Sheridan's and Sinclair's attitudes towards Londo and G'Kar, at least for a while, are very much due to first impressions. For Sinclair, G'Kar is the guy who tried to get him handed over to the Vorlons, and was smug about an invasion of a defenseless outpost, and he's basically cool with an undertone of hostility until the later half of the first season. Meanwhile, Londo is the guy who asks him for help and is otherwise mostly amusing and harmless. For Sheridan, on the other hand, G'Kar is the guy who tries to warn everyone about a mysterious danger which turns out to be very real soon enough, while Londo is the guy who tried to pull a fast one on him here in Geometry of Shadows in order to gain more status. And it shows subsequently.

Michael Ansara is fabulous as Elric. I'm actually not that fond of the technomages, and distinctly cool on Galen, but Ansara pulls off the Tolkien quote about wizards in style and is really impressive and suitably chilling in the "your victims" prophecy scene.

This is the first (and of course not the last) episode to showcase Vir's quiet heroism; even if one somehow has managed to overlook Vir in the first season (if so, WHY?), this should be a signal to everyone around he's going to be an important character. And of course it's the episode which introduces a new recurring character in the form of Refa. Who is despicable but a great foil for Londo; the scenes between them, whether it's plotting with each other or against each other, are quite telling about Londo, both in the sense of how far he is and how far he isn't willing to go. You can also see the shifting pattern of power. Here, Refa is very much the insider at court intrigues allowing outsider Londo a chance to come in, for a price. By the time we get to s3, Londo pulls his "because I asked you, and because I've poisoned your drink" with a coolness that is completely the opposite of his unease and ill-disguised eagerness to rise in Refa's company here in GoS.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

Also, in S1, G'Kar and the Narns are very much the aggressors (Ragesh 3) which must have influenced Sinclair's attitude. The Centauri seem more helpless and hapless. In S2, the Centauri become the aggressors and the Narns become the victims, especially by the end.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

The Elric shout-out is a chance to bring up the Moorcock influence on JMS, which is less discussed than the Tolkien but is very visible in the Order vs Chaos orientation of the Vorlons and Shadows and the eventual rejection of both as morally ambiguous extremists. I like to think that Elric the Technomage picked his Order name as a geeky novice because he thought Elric of Melnibone was way cool and regrets it as badly as any fan stuck with a blatantly self-identifying online handle they regret.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

As an episode, I feel this largely works entirely because of Michael Ansara’s performance as Elric. I do not find the Technomages particularly interesting - I was very surprised that they were brought back for Crusade, or got their own trilogy of novels… When you get right down to it, using ‘technology to simulate magic’ is what *stage magicians* do, and the mages come across as rather annoyingly pretentious to me, considering the ‘magic’ they demonstrate doesn’t actually seem any more advanced than the standard technology of the B5 setting.

But somehow Ansara manages to bring enough presence to the role that it actually works, that Elric comes across as a genuinely powerful and imposing individual possessing secret knowledge, not just some idiot with a few high-tech sleigh of hand techniques.

Londo - Is it just me, or do the decorations in Londo’s quarters seem more ornate now? That, and having his hair done in a less ragged style than it was for most of season one are nice little visual cues that Londo has a little more self-respect and pride now that he sees the possibility for the Centauri Republic to regain its power.

Interesting that Londo claims an audience with the Technomages would be a powerful symbol back home, but Vir doesn’t seem to have even heard of the mages before. There’s a couple of other scenes in the series where Vir seems completely ignorant of Centauri traditions, which is either a cheap justification for Londo to provide an explanation to the audience or, more charitably, a sign that Londo’s really not that in touch with the Centauri mainstream – that the traditions and history he obsesses over are all but forgotten outside the aristocracy.

Garibaldi – There’s some interesting stuff here. Garibaldi starts off saying he’s not sure if he’s qualified to go back to work, but in the end his knowledge helps save the day and convinces him that he brings something useful to the job. But he also starts off saying he’s not sure if he trusts Sheridan, and by the end of the episode, he’s still saying he doesn’t trust anyone. And it’s nice that that never gets wrapped up nicely – even before s4, Garibaldi and Sheridan never have the easy trust he had with Sinclair, and it does make it more believable in s4 that Bester just increased his natural paranoia, rather than completely altering his personality…

[marphilly.livejournal.com]

I agree with you about Elric making this ep work. He was a potent presence.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I see we agree on technomages in general versus Elric in particular.

Decorations in Londo's quater: no, they really are more ornate.

Ah yes, the exposition question. Your charitable explanation works for me, though I can think of one notable exception: in The Very Long Night Of Londo Mollari, it's Vir who knows about the legend of the soul trying to escape an unworthy body, and Londo who has to look it up.

But he also starts off saying he’s not sure if he trusts Sheridan, and by the end of the episode, he’s still saying he doesn’t trust anyone. And it’s nice that that never gets wrapped up nicely – even before s4, Garibaldi and Sheridan never have the easy trust he had with Sinclair, and it does make it more believable in s4 that Bester just increased his natural paranoia, rather than completely altering his personality…

Absolutely. Which is why it gets me mad if people confuse what happened with Talia with what happened to Garibaldi. Talia and Control were two different personalities. With Garibaldi, Bester just pushed some already existing tendencies to the fore and surpressed others. I think Garibaldi and Sheridan were most comfortable with each other in the last third of season 3, but even then, it's not the same type of friendship he had with Sinclair. I think he saw Sheridan as a superior he respected and to a degree trusted, but not unconditionally.And the fact nobody but G'Kar bothered to look for him in early s4 can't have helped Garibaldi's trust issues, either, even aside from Psi Corps indoctrination.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

"if people confuse what happened with Talia with what happened to Garibaldi"

I have never understood this. The sad thing about Garibaldi is that the seeds of his destruction were always there, inside him. Of course, the seeds of his redemption were there as well.
Someone mentioned the PsiCorp sign Jack made at Garibaldi...I've always wondered if Bester marked Garibaldi as a good prospect for possible future 'intervention', and deliberately needled him every chance he got. He got in his head on his first visit to the station; who knows what he saw?

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

I don't think I ever really liked Garibaldi after Season 1. He was a fun character, even with all his flaws and after Sheridan came, he was mostly a sullen paranoid bastard, even before Bester got to him.

Vir was wonderful in this one. I loved it when he drank the rest of Londo's drink and passed out.

Ivanova's problem with the Drazi is amusing and annoying, as are ther Drazi. I disliked them almost as much as I did the Centauri.

I actually liked the Technomages but I really didn't see that they had much to doi in this episode. Knowing them as we do later, why on earth did they even stop at B5 in the first place. The bit with the orange blossom was sweet.

[ladylavinia.livejournal.com]

"Garibaldi – There’s some interesting stuff here. Garibaldi starts off saying he’s not sure if he’s qualified to go back to work, but in the end his knowledge helps save the day and convinces him that he brings something useful to the job. But he also starts off saying he’s not sure if he trusts Sheridan, and by the end of the episode, he’s still saying he doesn’t trust anyone. And it’s nice that that never gets wrapped up nicely – even before s4, Garibaldi and Sheridan never have the easy trust he had with Sinclair, and it does make it more believable in s4 that Bester just increased his natural paranoia, rather than completely altering his personality…"


I find it interesting that both Sheridan and Sinclair developed close relationship with different regular characters. Whereas Sinclair had closer relationships with Garibaldi and Londo; Sheridan's relationships with Ivanova, G'Kar and even Franklin were a lot closer.

[utah-yoda.livejournal.com]

Ivanova's promotion is a favorite moment of the season for me; they toast informally with orange juice, which is in a way more fitting than alcohol as it is probably harder to get. It also continues to set the framework for the friendship and trust she and Sheridan share.

The Drazi situation is the secondary plot here, but I find it a lot more interesting. Ivanova has until this point in the show been less than subtle; she starts to really grow in dealing with this situation. Garibaldi's rescue also highlights the friendship those two share. It isn't as obvious or demonstrative as some of the relationships they have with others, but it is strong.

I wince watching Claudia Christian limp around in this ep; she really did have a broken foot.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

I liked the techno-mages, although I have no clue what earthly use they were. Mainly their clothes (circuitry embroidery!) and the sigils they trace in the air. Also the computer demons.
I loved the shout out to Arthur C. Clarke (any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic). Wonder if the techno-mages are useful when races do a Great Burn on themselves? Or with primitive races (assuming we have no Prime Directive). They could introduce, or re-introduce, tech as magic.
I figured they stopped at the station cause it was a good central meeting place.
Are there techno-mages of other races? Must be if the Centauri saw them ages before they met the humans. Londo is a scholar of ancient Centauri history. Vir, I imagine, didn't exactly shine at school.
And what are the 14 words to make someone fall in love with you forever anyway?

Oh, and Green. Never Purple.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

But in purple, I'm stunning!