b5_revisited

Alas, one of the mostly boring ones. I love D.C. Fontana's Star Trek episodes, but on B5 her work feels somewhat generic. It doesn't help that this is an almost exclusively (safe for Delenn) human characters episode, and well, my most beloved characters on this show are all aliens.

There is some valid Sheridan character exploration, but again, what it goes for - Sheridan, having commanded a starship for years, feels frustrated by the change to station commander - is valid but isn't that illuminating about Sheridan specifically but could be written for any starship captain. (One reason why Sheridan didn't really click with me until In the shadow of Z'ha'dum was that this was the first episode which really made him feel three dimensional to me, not least because it deliberately showcased his darker side.) And his friend isn't an interesting guest character, either. I'm playing favorites here; I'm not against one spot guest characters suddenly declared as very important people to Our Heroes... if they are,say, the Centauri Urza Jaddo. But even leaving aside my prejudices, this character is so bland I couldn't even remember Russ Tamblyn HAD guest starred on B5.

Speaking of bland: and then we get Warren Keefer in the enforced Top Gun scenes which JMS confessed to hating with a passion later. It shows.

The most interesting scene to me was the one with Delenn and the Minbari, because while here the process of alienation, no bad pun intended, between Delenn and her fellow Minbari starts, it's not presented as a simple "they're xenophobic and so mean to her!" matter. She is incredibly arrogant with her "understanding isn't required, only obedience!" In many ways, it parallels Neroon becoming Delenn's nemesis this season due to her treatment of him in Legacies last season.

The conversation between Delenn and Sheridan is one for the shippers, to which I don't belong, so no comment here.

I remember finding the "Franklin forces everyone to go on a diet" subplot amusing the first time I watched; alas, it didn't age well for me. This time, I just wished it to be over...

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nolivingman.livejournal.com

I love Sheridan with a great big love, but not because of this blandness which could have starred anybody. And even the shipper moment was pretty generically shippery to me - I mean, I like Delenn/Sheridan because they don't have so many it's-obvious-they're-meant-for-each-other conversations, because they were coworkers/friends first. Blah.

I got more xenophobia out of Delenn's thing than you did, apparently. I think that it could have been a more nuanced confrontation between people who genuinely have a gripe about her reckless behavior - particularly Workers and Warriors who don't hold prophecy as dearly as she does - but it seemed more of a shallow "you look different now" thing.

Edited Date: 2009-07-12 09:30 pm (UTC)

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Oh,as far as I remember in later episodes it's presented as "you look different now, freak!" versus well meaning Delenn, but in this case, the guy asks her for an explanation, why she did what she did, and she just shoots him down. That made the scene for me.

this blandness which could have starred anybody

Yes, that's what I meant. It's a story that could have happened anywhere. You could easily adopt it for, say, Kirk between The (Slow) Motion Picture and Wrath of Khan, for example. There is nothing core B5 about it, or distinguishing Sheridan from Promoted Starship Captain X.

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nolivingman.livejournal.com

Is this the episode where in the commentary JMS apologizes for Delenn's hair? Because he should. I adore Delenn and think that she (and Mira) are beautiful, but the awkwardness of her hair in early S2 makes me cringe like whoa. I know this is the most shallow comment ever, but it really takes away from the episodes to me to see her walking around with that bad hair.

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Nah, it doesn't have an audio commentary, but I remember the apology from a later episode. *g* (Not much later, though.)

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Not shallow cause it bothers me too. (And I'm not shallow! Really...)

We do get our 'explanation' with her bad hair day coming up, but here's a sciencey one if you like. The changeover from Minbari to partly/mostly human must have had her immune and hormonal system on overload as everything settled into place. Estrogen especially has an affect on hair; amount, consistency, and composition. I like to think that it was fluctuations in hormone level that caused the change in her hair from one episode to the next, with them finally settling down later in S2 and especially by S3.
What bothers me more is how we went from that almost-like-carved-bone look of her crest in S1 to the playdough-stuck-to-her head look in S2. That settles out later as well and I can go into estrogen and other hormones' relationship to bone morphogenic protein...but then again, maybe not. :)

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marphilly.livejournal.com

I love this episode for the rescue of stranded ship, the exchange between Sheridan and Delenn, the creepiness of the Shadows, and bagna cauda. I have a recipe for it that I want to try one day.

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widsidh.livejournal.com

Ah, that's how it's spelt!

For the sdake of fannishness if nothing else, I think I'll need to google for a recipe some time (unless you'd like/are easily able to share yours)?

:-)

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marphilly.livejournal.com

The recipe is from Joy of Cooking but I've never tried it.

Wiki has an interesting blurb about it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagna_cauda

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widsidh.livejournal.com

Thank you.
I'd got as far as the wiki but no further.

Will check out Joy of Cooking!

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imhilien.livejournal.com

I like this episode because my inner geek likes the ship, LOL. The way the ship is rescued was a good way, I thought, to illustrate how easy it could be to get lost in hyperspace (and then attacked by Shadow ships, ugh).

I did like the speech between Delenn and Sheridan at the end... it may be corny to say so, but I've learnt more philosophy from this show than any other source.

Best line:

Ivanova (on being 'obliged' to eat more) "All my life, I've fought against imperialism. Suddenly, *I* am the expanding Russian frontier!1!"

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alexcat.livejournal.com

Actually I quite enjoyed this episode. We got to know Sheridan better and to this point, I did not like him, But I did after this. It made him human finally. He is good in this ep as the mayor of B5-ville, more or less, and I liked his friend. He seemed rather like an old surfer though. Maybe he played a surfer in some movie or show.

And this ep had Delenn's nice Starstuff speech. I always enjoyed that one.

And Warren finally got his tiny shining moment in the sun! wheee!

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traviswells.livejournal.com

I missed B5 when it was on TV, all but this episode. I saw it on the first run: I was ten.

I remember thinking it was really cool, I especially liked the space ships. I missed the name though, and none of my friends knew what show it was, so I didn't find B5 again for another decade. Sad.

Anyway, rewatch notes: Man, Sheridan is a dick to Garibaldi in this episode. Garibaldi is clearly just trying to keep Sheridan up to date about what's going on regarding security, and Sheridan is basically "Why the hell are you waiting my time with this? This is your job: do it and don't bother me again". You're supposed to be a diplomat, ACT LIKE IT.

Man, the Cortez is huge. It's longer than B5! I wonder how many people are on that thing? B5 doesn't have that much more habitable space and it's got 250,000 people on it. (Plus I always imagined it as half-empty)

The bit where Captain Maynard is explaining about seeing a Shadow vessel is great. Even though we've seen a few, it really helps increase their mystery. Plus the visual trick right before the fadeout is great: Right as it starts to fade out, shadows move across the walls behind Sheridan.

The diet subplot is still lame. It's kinda pointless and it feels too much like Franklin decided to be a dick to everyone this week.

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Man, the Cortez is huge. It's longer than B5! I wonder how many people are on that thing?

Looks like most of it isn't habitable space, though. I guess it's designed so that extra modules can be attached if needed - maybe for transporting entire colonies? Throw in engines, hangar bays, enough fuel and supplies for years on end... I think JMS said somewhere explorer ships also set down temporary jumpgates when they find planets worthy of later in-depth surveys, so parts for those are going to take up even more space.

Seems like even if you assume it's only got a tenth as much living space as B5, that's still tens of thousands of crew, though.

From:

traviswells.livejournal.com

The effects when the shadow vessel first appears are great. They've got this slightly shaking panning to them, and it gives it a kinda of proto-battlestar look to it.

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Well, that was kinda ‘meh’. Two main problems. Number one, the actor playing Captain Maynard seems to be playing up the “Sheridan’s old buddy” aspect of the character at the expense of the “experienced starship captain” part of things. He’s just a little too casual in all his scenes. That’s alright when he’s having a private drink with Sheridan, not so good when he’s just as laid-back when his ship’s bridge bursts into flames and his first officer reports that they’re lost in hyperspace and all going to die… The guy’s got no gravitas whatsoever.

The other problem is that nobody’s particularly likable in this episode. We’ve got Maynard himself, who in the scene in Sheridan’s quarters seems unable to quietly drop the issue of B5 not being Sheridan’s first choice of command. There’s the subplots, which revolve around Franklin being unnecessarily obnoxious and Delenn apparently pre-emptively channelling Ulkesh. And then there’s Sheridan, who spends most of the episode sulking about how he’s stuck on boring old Babylon 5 instead of commanding ~~the Enterprise~~ an explorer ship, a position which really isn’t one the show can afford to have us sympathise with, and probably isn’t the best way to help establish the still-new character as someone the audience wants to see stick around. And am I the only one a little concerned about his out-of-nowhere rant about politicians and bureaucrats, the political subtext of which seems to be “The only acceptable element of government is the military”? Somewhat understandable in context, but considering Sheridan would go on to overthrow the Earth Alliance government, and then seemingly accumulate more and more power with little to no actual accountability, it ends up a little disturbing.

The actual plot’s alright, but I’m still a little confused as to how Keffer navigated back – if he was still oriented enough to fire in the direction of the jumpoint for the Cortez, why couldn’t he just head in that direction once he got navigation back? And if hyperspace is that disorienting and distorted that even just being there for a little while would render that information useless, how could using the Shadow ship as a second reference point be exact enough to get him back? I’m cool with hyperspace being inherently confusing and difficult to explain, and I actually do appreciate the lack of info-dumps in the episode, but I was left a little lost as to what, exactly, the problem was and how the solution solved it.

Minor notes:

- More hints that the Earth Alliance isn’t a shiny happy Federation utopia – they name their exploration ships after conquistadors.

- Ah, Warren Keffer. I know, I know, the character was forced on the show, JMS didn’t want him – but surely there were better ways to work him in than just having him show up randomly and act as if he’d been a major cast member all along?

- For such a forgettable episode, this one does have some very nice music.

From:

traviswells.livejournal.com

More hints that the Earth Alliance isn’t a shiny happy Federation utopia – they name their exploration ships after conquistadors.

I'm not sure this is an intentional "EA is more sinister than the Federation" plot point, JMS seems to defend it pretty hard in his comments.

I think the problem with the solution in this episode is that as fans of B5 we don't expect technobabble, so we expect to understand any technological solution given. Just pretend JMS accidentally channeled Roddenberry for a moment, and Keffer escaped by remodulating the polarity of the neutron flow in the aft sensor array.

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What I want to know is whether the Earth Alliance has a Prime Directive. They're exploring space, setting up jumpgates, presumably laying claim to territory...anybody out there? Even pre-sentient species?

Presumably the relative 'spheres of influence' were laid out by all the treaties they're always talking about in Council meetings etc. I wonder if the Non-Aligned Worlds are restricted by the big boys, and whether they bitterly resent it, and that's why they're Shadow-prey. It's all very Great Gamish.

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For some reason, I've always assumed the government being backed by Earth in "Gropos" was pre-spaceflight... Can't seem to find anything to back that up though.

It occurs to me that the B5 setting is a post-colonial one, with the end of Centauri rule over other species still within living memory. I'd assume that blatant attempts to occupy or exploit primitive worlds is frowned on, but sending in ‘advisors’ or establishing ‘protectorates’ over low-tech systems is pretty common.

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then there’s Sheridan, who spends most of the episode sulking about how he’s stuck on boring old Babylon 5 instead of commanding ~~the Enterprise~~ an explorer ship,

He. I definitely had the impression D.C. Fontana was writing Kirk post-TMP, pre-WoK here. Well, as this is a very early episode and she couldn't have seen Boxleitner's performance or the majority of the s2 scripts, presumably JMS gave her no more to work with than "new guy, used to command a ship before"?

Good one on Delenn channeling Ulkesh. I had forgotten Kosh II says the very same thing to Lyta in s4. One more proof the Minbari were the ones most influenced and formed by the Vorlons!

And am I the only one a little concerned about his out-of-nowhere rant about politicians and bureaucrats, the political subtext of which seems to be “The only acceptable element of government is the military”? Somewhat understandable in context, but considering Sheridan would go on to overthrow the Earth Alliance government, and then seemingly accumulate more and more power with little to no actual accountability, it ends up a little disturbing.

It's the general JMS problem on this show. He's great on showing and warning how a democracy slips into a fascist dictatorship via the Clark regime (and preludes in s1), but when it comes to presenting the forces for democracy as actually democratic, not so much. See the demonization of the reporter in s1 for daring to ask Sinclair what's going on. And the poor reporter in Lost Tales whom Sheridan acts like a gigantic jerk towards. I think it might go back to the fact that Sheridan's storyline has similarities with the Aragon/Return-of-the-King model, but while in a conservative fantasy like LotR you can accept Aragorn becoming king of Gondor as a happy ending without question in the last third of the story, Sheridan becoming President and everyone who dares to question him treated like an annoyance and/or villain is another issue, because B5 is another type of story and supposedly in support of a system that encourages a balance of power.

The Earth Alliance ships: after conquistadors and sci fi writers (see the Asimov).*g*

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I have read (somewhere, can't remember) that JMS intended to delve into the effect of the Alliance becoming a reality: with unintended consequences and unforeseen issues; including individual world's rights and the Rangers being seen as Enforcers rather than Peacekeepers. It's hinted at in Deconstruction; that not everyone remembers his 'reign' positively, and his intentions are not seen as benign.

The temptation to prefer order over chaos is always there.

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The week is wending away and I haven't commented. Such is the way of life.

First, Jack Maynard is one of my favorite background characters and I deeply regret not seeing him again. I liked the friendship between him and Sheridan. I was still becoming reconciled to Sheridan at this point, and I consider this episode part of the Meet the Captain series, always a bit expository, but that's what they are for.

I caught a whiff of Finnegan about Jack (altho he is much nicer) in his needling John about settling for the desk job. To me, this is v. much an episode about well meaning friends interfering in your life, and people who 'knew you when' not understanding changes in you. Both John and Delenn pull rank on underlings as they work through how they feel about their choices. It plays into the 'right people at the right place at the right time' theme developed throughout this season. I especially like Susan's part in John's thought process; 'make up your mind cause I've got a job to do here, and I need to know both where you stand, and if you're up to doing your part.' She's a good XO, and a good friend.

Second, the diet subplot shows Stephen at his self-righteous best, and I really like the scene with him and Garibaldi bonding over bagna cauda. It's a preview of their friendship, and their various battles with their addictions. Stephen knows what's best, for everyone but himself. Did anyone else feel that Stephen buckled over Garibaldi's father story because of his own issues with his dad? Father issues abound in this series.

Third, the Flying Dutchman story which occurs over and over again, a variant of the 'you can't go home again' storyline. The idea of being lost, drifting, helpless and alone, is a powerful and scary one, to me at least. JMS goes to it first with Babylon 4, then here with the Cortez, and later in WWE and The Fall of Centauri Prime. Even at the very end, with John's being unable to stay in the military, losing his home on Earth. I do wish they had thrown in a line about the lifeboat scenario having been tried before and not worked, or that they were trying some new variant on it. Because it's really an obvious solution. It would have shown in Sheridan either an ability to think outside the box, or his determination to preservere in a 'no-win' situation.

As for Keffer's return, whatever. It's a silly thing, and only necessary to put in motion his White Whale fixation, and to preview what will happen to him anyway. I like to think that somewhere there's a copy of this script, with this part scribbled out, and an addendum by JMS-- "And Warren Keffer was never seen again. The. End."

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