"Passing Through Gethsemane" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 3X04, "Passing Through Gethsemane". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
One of Brother Theo's monks is haunted by violent visions. Lyta returns to Babylon 5 as Kosh's assistant.

Extra reading:
The article for "Passing Through Gethsemane" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I often refer to this as one of my favourite standalones of the show, but rewatching, I realized one can't really call it a standalone, containing as it does important things for Lyta's arc, as well as preparations for the big Valen reveal later this season. Still: the main plot around Brother Edward is one of my favourite standalone plots. A far more successful attempt to tackle the "death of personality" concept first introduced in s1.

At the time of first broadcast, Brad Dourif seemed to keep turning up as a psychopath in tv shows - he played one in the X-Files, he played one on Voyager, and now here he was again, except that Edward isn't a psychopath. Charles was. Due to Dourif's other roles, I wondered during the first time I watched this whether Edward would suddenly go crazy/evil and hoped he wouldn't, as that would have been the easy way out. It's a fascinating concept currently tackled in other shows as well: Edward's personality was artificially created, but he is a real person. Then there is the question he asks Theo, how he can repent meaningfully if he can't even remember; and the implication about human society as a whole at that point, completely independent from the Clarke development. What is more important, life or free will? Murderers get reprogrammed a la Clockwork Orange, and this is something democratic earth came up with, not the fascist one. Yet when Psi Corps does it to Talia, or Bester, in a lesser degree, does it to Garibaldi, we're clearly supposed to think of it as an evil act. (Sidenote: actually I don't think the show positions the death of personality is just dandy, either; nor that it's completely wrong. It is a logical development in a society which has mindwipes available.)

I think what pushes this episode from the "good" into "great" region for me is the final scene with Sheridan. Because we're not allowed to feel, along with Sheridan, safe in our moral superiority. We like Edward; we're sorry for his death. Of course, because Edward was introduced and remains a sympathetic character, and we only see Charles in very brief flashbacks. So when at the end Edward's killer turns up as a community-service-oriented monk as well, it feels like a cold shower to both Sheridan and a first time audience who just has been prepared to sign off on the moral lesson of the day. Really well done.

The first time I watched, I didn't pay all that much attention to Lennier's little exposition about Valen; on all subsequent rewatchs, I thought, oh, sneaky JMS. Because here you have it: "a Minbari not born of Minbari, turned up 1000 years ago out of nowhere, unified the Grey Council, won war".

Lyta and Kosh: it's striking to compare the last scene to the one between Lyta and Kosh II in s4; all the difference between consensual sex and rape. I find it both sad and striking that Lyta basically goes from leaving Psi Corps because she got disillusioned to serving the Vorlons with the same amount of unquestioning blind ideological loyalty a Psi Corps loyalist has. What they do to her - the modifications so she can be a better instrument, the seeds to turn her into a superweapon when needed - is exactly what the Corps did to Ironheart, or Talia, and Lyta ought to know better, but she doesn't. She basically replaced Mother and Father with Better Daddy (because presumably her love for the Vorlons is really love for Kosh), and does not wake up until she gets abused all over again.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I like this episode a lot and am rather sad that Brother Theo did not make more appearances than he did. It's a pity Louis Turenne was too ill to play Draal for his second appearance, but JMS's desire to give him a consolation prize gave us another great character.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

PS I also regeet seeing so little of Theo!

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

I think this is a standalone, as far as B5 has them anyway. Even in S1, there is always arc-stuff going on in the background. This was the eopisode that first got me into b5, and it felt very much like a self-contained story then, it didn't matter that the Vorlon angle did not make sense to me at that point. It did prepare me for coming eridness though: This is the episod that made me come back - Voices of Authority then got me hooked.


I like the way B5 deals with human religion. While there are new movements (e.g the Foundationists), some of the religions we know today are still around and recognizable; some institutions have changed (cf. the Temple mentioned by Ivanova, I think in TKO), some are the same (Theo mentions the Holy See, although of course we are not told how this is run). The familiar rituals give a powerful sense of continuity and therefore timelessness. The universality of central theme of forgiveness is only strengthened by this.
The final scene with Sheridan, Theo and Malcolm is awesome.
There is some really courageous scripting in this.

BTW, Minbari not born of Minbari has often reminded me of the Christian Nicene Creed's "begotten not created". The fact that it turns up in this episode seems to prove this is not a coincidence literary turn of phrase.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

(Theo mentions the Holy See, although of course we are not told how this is run).

No, but we do hear about a major, major change quite casually. In s4, when Garibaldi is irritated by the cultlike reaction to Sheridan, he says "they behave as if he's the Pope, and he doesn't even look like her". Good old JMS, smuggling in female popes and thus female clerics for the Catholic church that way.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

In addition to being one of the best standalone episodes of the series, it’s also got one of my favourite titles, after “Falling Towards Apotheosis”.

If one had to criticise it, I would note that this episode suffers from the same problem as a lot of B5’s non-arc stories in that the guest stars take over the story and there’s not much tying it to the established setting. On the Lurker’s Guide, JMS compares it to an episode of the Twilight Zone, and it is true that this story would be as at home in an anthology show as in B5 itself. On the other hand, this isn't Grail or TKO - there's an excelent story here, so I'm not really complaining if the show decides to take an episode away from the regular cast to tell it.

Still, as I mentioned back in “Quality of Mercy”, I do feel mind-wipes seem a little out of place in the B5 setting – and I find it hard to believe a culture that’s largely abandoned the death penalty would so easily embrace death of personality… or consider it a lesser punishment. On that note, anyone else find it extra-creepy that religious organisations can apparently apply to use the condemned? (Admittedly, not sure if that’s meant to be a ‘real’ setting detail or just a minor plot hole to allow for the ending…) I mean, sure, Brother Theo’s nice, but it’s not exactly a standard definition of ‘community service’…

I do think it’s a shame that Talia didn’t get a mention – it could have provided some sort of link between the Lyta and the mindwipe plots. For that matter, Ivanova seems a little too relaxed around Lyta, considering the curcumstances of their last meeting.

The story of Gethsemane strikes me as vaguely reminiscent of the Londo’s third chance to redeem himself according to Morella: surrendering to his greatest fear, knowing it will destroy him.

Minor notes:

- Edward’s concerns about his soul still being tainted by Charles’ crimes reminds me vaguely of “Planescape: Torment.” What can change the nature of a man?

- I’d forgotten about the Centauri telepath here. Funny to think that it might well be the Centauri who have the most liberal attitudes to telepath rights.

- Nice little touch: in the old ISN report of Charles Dexter, ISN has a slightly different logo to the one used elsewhere. Old logos have always struck me as one of the quickest ways old news footage gets dated.

- Lyta's threat to Londo echoes the story she tells somewhere else about the killer of teleaths who needed to be confined to an asylum in restraints after the Corps was through with him.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The story of Gethsemane strikes me as vaguely reminiscent of the Londo’s third chance to redeem himself according to Morella: surrendering to his greatest fear, knowing it will destroy him.


That reminds me of something I forgot to bring up in my comment: you can really tell the ex-Catholic in JMS' writing, and not just in this episode. In addition to the Gethsemane parallel in this particular episode, we've got G'Kar getting the flogging and the march with the cross, Sheridan getting the resurrection (and the identification to those who want to arrest him by a friend, and eventually the ascension), and Londo, as you say, gets the Garden of Gethsemane scenario in The Fall of Centauri Prime.

Neat observation about the ISN logo, I hadn't noticed.

Lyta's threat to Londo echoes the story she tells somewhere else about the killer of teleaths who needed to be confined to an asylum in restraints after the Corps was through with him.

If you count the Psi Corps trilogy as canon, then this particular killer as tracked down and driven into insanity by Bester, which Lyta witnessed during the brief time she interned with the Psi Cops (which caused her to switch to commercial immediately after). Lyta threatening to do the same here would fit with the largery irony of her in some ways becoming a female version of Bester (which I find most obvious in late s5 when she and Franklin are investigating, and Lyta, clad in black leather, tells the guy who attacked them but is already defeated to kill himself just because she can and he's a mundane who annoyed her.

I think this Centauri telepath and the ones clad in white who surround the Emperor are the only ones we see. The later case makes me wonder about the "most liberal attitude" because if they were raised together specifically to serve the Emperor from early childhood onwards, it doesn't sound as if they had much choice about it. This telepath otoh looks like he's for hire and strictly freelance. My fanon is that the Centauri do have a telepath guild (after all, if even the torturers have a union guild the telepaths would be organized, too), but the Emperor's telepaths aside, they don't need to wear distinguishable clothing, and their rules are probably "if one House hires you, keep your contract and do not sell out to the House they're feuding with. What you do to non-Centauri is your business".

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it just struck me that the teep here seems to be the only freelance telepath we ever see of any race. There's also a Centauri telepath working for Refa in "And the Rock Cried Out..." Don't remember if he's confirmed to be freelance or whether he's a full time employee of House Refa or what.

The Emperor's telepaths seem to be a special case; other noble houses don't seem to have anything like them, and for that matter, Cartagia doesn't seem to make use of them either. It does seem that at least some Centauri telepaths have the same opportunities as mundane Centauri.

(Hmm. In the real world, 'psychic' covers both telepathy and clairvoyance - do the Centauri also see them as the same sort of thing? If so, they might not draw as much of a distinction between telepaths and mundane Centauri when all Centauri are at least limited seers...)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I, err, have a personal fanon why the Emperor's telepaths weren't around in the Cartagia era, as I wrote a story about them. A combination of him wanting to be scandalous and the Shadows not wanting telepaths in the palace.

Good point about the Centauri not seeing that much difference because of the general low level clairvoyance! Given that strong seers enjoy higher social status, that would influence attitudes as well.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

Cartagia presumably wouldn't see much point in the telepaths anyway - "What's the point of knowing what's going on Centauri Prime while I'm away? I'm the only important thing on Centauri Prime!"

[kathrid.livejournal.com]

I think it makes more sense that Centauri telepaths are treated like other Centauri. Each House will have a number of telepath members and they serve the house just like everyone else. They probably make a good source of telepaths for hire, since Centauri don't care much about rules and laws of other races and so Centauri teeps won't be bothered about breaking them either.