"Exogenesis" discussion

[ruuger]

This is the discussion post for the episode 3X07, "Exogenesis". Spoilers for the whole of the series, including the spin-offs and tie-ins, are allowed here so newbies beware.

Summary:
Franklin and Marcus investigate parasitic aliens that are attaching themselves to lurkers.

Extra reading:
The article for "Exogenesis" at Lurker's Guide.

Comments

[alexcat.livejournal.com]

Those vindrizi things creeped me out sooo much at the beginning. Blergh!

Nothing in this ep was what it looked like, was it?
I remember when I saw it the first time that I really hated it when they did a non arc story. The Vindrizi actually might have been part of the arc if they's bothered to write them in since they'd been recording history for such a long time.
I don't have any deep thoughts about this ep. I had actually forgotten this one unitl it showed up tonight.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

The Vindrizi story was one of the last standalone plots before S5, wasn't it?

I like the Vindrizi, and regret never seeing them again. They reminded me of the Trill first time round, but the more I think about it, the less that applies, beyond the basic principle. I think even the way they attach is different (although it's a wgile since I've seen a Trill-without-host episode). What I like is their mission, and the way they fulfil it, by staying out of sight and in the process giving purpose to the desparate (the Trill by contrast, grow their own hosts and operate very much on the same level as everyone else). Dramaturgically I also like the way the portrayal of the Vindrizi moves from "the yuck-factor" to showing gentle, benevolent beings.

alexcat's nothing is what it looks like also extends to the Corwyn/Ivanova plot, although that only finds its fulfilment later.

(I couldn't resist and watched the story up to Severed Drems all in one go...)

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

Oh *bounce* We are about to start a string of the best episodes. I cannot wait until next week!

But first: Exogenesis. I had forgotten how much I liked Marcus at first; and baby Corwin, left out again. Why in the world does Sheridan think Susan is up to surreptitiously probing poor Corwin's sympathies? Taking a sledgehammer to a thumbtack. Maybe if she'd done the Lumati dance....

We have quotes from the Scottish play (that superstition will never die, will it?) and again with A Christmas Carol! (Or wait, is that later? *is confused*)

Duncan's speech at the end has replicant echoes, doesn't it?

And the whole 'we must record history' thing keeps coming up...we have Soul Hunters and vickers and Techno-Mages and the Great Machine and now the Vindrizi. Is this meant to be a string of portents? The end; it is coming!

My favorite bit though, was Marcus's interview with his informant. 'The package from Mars' is on its way. (Next week! *chortle*) And who do you suppose is 'Angel One back on Minbar'? Sinclair? Delenn? the other Vorlon? Enquiring minds want to know.

Stephen's comment on Susan being nice as long as Marcus was just passing through was very insightful. He's pegged her fear of commitment all right. Who do you suppose Stephen thinks is Susan's type? That's a nice place for some Ivanova/Franklin shipping, isn't there?

A spacer episode, but nice stuff.

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

And who do you suppose is 'Angel One back on Minbar'? Sinclair? Delenn? the other Vorlon? Enquiring minds want to know.

Vir? ...:-)

Actually, this started out as a facetious thought, but perhaps it refers to that little humanitarian scam of his - I wouldn't put it beyond the rangers to be in on that, with or with out his knowledge...

I'm sure there is a flaw there somewhere - it's just some idle thinking promptend by your question. As I'm typing this attempting to recall the exact passage where it is said, and whether or not Vir may have left the station for Minbar since the opening scene (maybe not...), but my VCR and any internet-linked computer are not currently in the same place...

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

Not Vir I think. The line (as I recall, must check) referred to Angel One having the Rangers pull back from Earth boundary space...out of Vir's range of activity I would think. Sounded like someone high up in Ranger hierarchy, but I don't remember ever hearing it again!

It intrigued me because I just wrote a story where the Markabs see Delenn as the Angel of Darkness who brings back Drafa...it hit a chord.

Though I like the Rangers being Vir's unseen facilitators in his humanitarian exploits. Although that begs the question why Sheridan is blind-sided by it. Though he was kinda busy at the time, and only in charge of the Rangers in that sector. Hmm. Exciting! Dangling plot line!

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

So where was everyone last week?

Anyway - we were talking about the least memorable episodes a while back, and I think we have a new challenger, as I have literally no memory of this episode existing whatsoever. The Corwin subplot seemed vaguely familiar on rewatching, so I must have seen it before, but the Vindrizi I’d completely forgotten about.

Why didn’t we get a Vindrizi trilogy of novels? They seem at least as interesting as the Techno-Mages, and I’m sure the knowledge they’re preserving is a lot more interesting than the Mage’s collection of 1001 sleight-of-hand tricks... Of course, not everything needs to be explained, but I do wonder if the Vindrizi returned to known space after the Shadow War or ever shared their knowledge with anyone else. I’m also curious as to who created them in the first place.

I must admit, I’m still a little sceptical of the Vindrizi by the episode’s end. There’s something that feels slightly morally dubious about their habit of targeting the most desperate and poorest individuals in society; it feels like some of the more questionable forms of religious proselytizing.

Also, they look uncannily like the parasites from Star Trek: TNG’s “Conspiracy”, so maybe that’s why I don’t entirely trust them *grin*. Is there a real critter that looks like this that they might both be based on?

B plot - Ah, poor Corwin. Is it more embarrassing to think you screwed up a date, or to find out you actually screwed up joining a secret conspiracy? Not really his fault, of course – someone other than his direct superior might have been a better choice to probe his position on following orders…

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I like this episode for the "ugly aliens aren't necessarily evil" motto even if it isn't a hugely memorable one. I do wonder if it was meant to be an actual anti-xenophobic "answer episode" to "Conspiracy" given JMS's hostility to Trek at the time.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

They do look so similar that I wouldn't be surprised if the Vindrizi were a reference - but "Conspiracy" was almost ten years before "Exogenesis", and is mainly memorable because it's practically the *only* Trek episode where extermination of an alien race is portrayed as the only option...

[widsidh.livejournal.com]

I’m also curious as to who created them in the first place.

I've always assumed evolution. Their biology (symbiosis, and with *any* healthy host) seems like a good survival mechanism.

That would probably make thier mission self-imposed, but that seems to me quite reasonable. It is not entirely altruistic, after all, as it will give them an immense pride and sense of importance, as well as a lot of power should they ever choose to come out of hiding.

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

But the Vindrizi do refer to themselves as being 'created half a million years ago', and Dr. Franklin observes that they're 'genetically neutral' which to me implies artificial origin.

I guess the Vindrizi could be a naturally evolving species that modified themselves once they developed spaceflight so they could implant in aliens as well.

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

All species refer to themselves as having 'been created'. The Great Maker made them all ;)

Natural evolution as symbiotes to one species, followed by encounters with other species, then self-modification to allow those other species to be carriers. That makes sense. Genetic neutrality can (theoretically, and to some extent actually) be engineered in natural species. The main problem I see is maintaining 'neutrality' given the constant evolution of species (especially over those time frames).

I myself don't like the culling of lurkers as carriers. It's not much of a choice they are offered, is it? And where did Duncan get the money to leave the station?

[ruuger]

So where was everyone last week?

I know! An episode with a major Londo/G'Kar plot and an appearance from Bester, and only four comments? :D

[nymeria-55.livejournal.com]

Revisiting an episode after some time always makes me find some new angle I'd forgotten or not noticed before, and Exogenesis was no exception.

The Vindrizi go from "bad alien" to "historian/archivist nice guys" and yet - as some posters remarked before me - they don't seem exactly "good": I think it might be due to their manner of taking over the hosts, since I couldn't avoid the thought that after all these millennia (?) they should have found a less painful way to effect a fusion, which leads me to think they don't care all that much about their...carriers.
I must admit I enjoy this "shades of grey" portrayal, because it's more in synch with the overall character presentation that is typical of B5.

Another thing I noticed is the wonderful interaction between Marcus and Franklin: it foreshadows what we will see later on in Season 4 and is a joy to behold - the repartees are fun and witty and perfectly delivered, showing also a good chemistry between the two performers.

Maybe it was not one the best non-arc episodes, but I enjoyed rewatching it.

And now I'm looking forward to one of my favorite story-arcs ever!!

[vjs2259.livejournal.com]

The means of fusion has to be quite low tech since they target the marginal people; no surgery or other expertise likely. I wonder if the hosts get all the accumulated knowledge of the Vindrizi. Then they might be able to do it in a less painful more efficient fashion, but still maybe can't get supplies or equipment without letting everyone know about them.

"And now I'm looking forward to one of my favorite story-arcs ever!!"

Me too!!

[4thofeleven.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this is the first time we get a Marcus that's recognisably Marcus - "Voices of Authority" was most of the way there, but this is the first time we get the guy who's just skirting the line between being amusing and being utterly irritating... *grin*

[ruuger]

I've finally caught up with the rewatch again! This was actually a much better episode than I remembered - I liked the interaction between Marcus and Garibaldi/Franklin/Ivanova, the Corwin plot was cute, and even the parasites were less generic than I remembered :)

I especially liked the scene where Marcus was trying to persuade Garibaldi to help the lurkers - Garibaldi's dismissal of the lurkers was very similar to Julie Musante's comments about the underprivileged in "Voices of Authority", reminding how even the good guys can have their bigotries.

Other notes:

- The uniformed woman in Franklin's staff meeting is played by the actress who plays Dureena.

- Franklin mentions a need for Drazi blood, which is a nice nod to the current hostilities between the Drazi and the Centauri as mentioned in "Dust to Dust".

- Corwin's promotion was foreshadowed in "Dust to Dust" when a woman G'Kar passes while under the influence of dust is heard thinking about how she should have gotten that promotion.